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do you have any experience with running a VM based application in BOINC?
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Send message Joined: 20 Feb 14 Posts: 1 Credit: 7,891,310 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Two major concerns A: getting GPU support in VM is very tricky busyness, if it is to be free, easy to use, easy to maintain and cross platform. I'd say it is impossible at the time. B: Especially on Linux (maybe other unix platforms too) its sometimes tricky go get boinc and VirtualBox to play along nicely. Both my gentoo box and my arch linux make trouble. Ubuntu worked fine, but Ubuntu is not the whole community. Maybe handing out docker containers? But that would put Win-Users in trouble, wouldn't it? |
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Send message Joined: 11 Oct 08 Posts: 1127 Credit: 1,901,927,545 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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GPUGrid admins: Was GPUGrid intending to use VMs for: GPU work, or CPU work, or both? It might be helpful to know what your intentions are... |
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Send message Joined: 9 Jan 16 Posts: 1 Credit: 884,675 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications
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For CPU based work, VMs would be just fine. 99.9% of the time however, a VM cannot access certain hardware, like the GPU(s). If you want to do GPU computing, it has to be on the host system OS. |
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Send message Joined: 10 Jan 16 Posts: 3 Credit: 246,061,370 RAC: 1 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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I use two VM projects with BOINC - Atlas and VirtualLHC. Up until recently, they were problematic especially with Windows 10. They had abnormally high disk usage and kept getting postponed saying they didn't start in a timely fashion or some such. But, now that they've finally approved Virtual Box 5 (I'm currently running 5.0.12) for BOINC 7.6.22, both projects are running very smoothly and I can't tell any difference between them and non VM projects. |
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Send message Joined: 10 Jan 16 Posts: 1 Credit: 40,500 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications
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yes, like the answers before I sugget you turn towards the CERN guys. I participate in the vLHC project - and after the latest upgrade (which included finally a 5.x Virtualbox) it runs well on my machine. On the other hand, people who like to contribute will need to have more RAM. Which isnt too big an issue looking at modern pcs - my laptop has a good 16GB .... just saying. |
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Send message Joined: 28 Jul 12 Posts: 819 Credit: 1,591,285,971 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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This is an example of how Docker is used to create a BOINC project. http://cosmicmar.com/2016/02/14/boinc-server-docker-1/ |
robertmilesSend message Joined: 16 Apr 09 Posts: 503 Credit: 769,991,668 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Some, as a user only. I found that you first need to enable VM, usually early in the boot process where you are still talking to to the BIOS or UEFI, and have not yet told it which operating system to boot (even if you only have one operating system installed). Details of how are often specific to the model of computer you have. If you have ever tried to download a VM workunit before, you must then edit a BOINC file which records that no usable VM was found for the previous VM workunit. Retrying this check is NOT automatic for BOINC 7.6.33 and earlier; this may change for future versions. This change needs to be done while BOINC is not running. At least one of the BOINC projects I get VM workunits from is not compatible with the 5.0.* versions of VirtualBox, so you must now upgrade to one of the recent 5.1.* versions if you're interested in that project. Restart or reboot after this upgrade. Now start BOINC, and tell at least one BOINC project that it is allowed to send you VM workunits. |
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Send message Joined: 24 May 11 Posts: 7 Credit: 93,272,937 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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I ran test for theory about year ago with my old pc , virtual box installed . Somehow they tend to need more attention , especially with older pc. Little more tricky than usual "participate and forget"-style crunching. |
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Send message Joined: 22 Feb 14 Posts: 26 Credit: 672,639,304 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Two years ago I did some crunching on VM without problems until I decided upgrade to a newer version of VM. Probably I did a mistake in the process and since then it has been impossible to install VM as always a missing archive is reported. I found others users of VM with the same problem and tips of how to fix it, but in my case it didn't work. |
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Send message Joined: 28 Jul 12 Posts: 819 Credit: 1,591,285,971 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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I ran test for theory about year ago with my old pc , virtual box installed . Somehow they tend to need more attention , especially with older pc. Little more tricky than usual "participate and forget"-style crunching. That is quite true for the CERN projects in general, but I think that is mainly because they are at the cutting edge of science and are constantly changing both the data and the applications they run. Also, they seem to have a lot of servers that need to be working together, and they don't always do so. It could be different on GPUGrid, if they stick with a stable application and don't change it without adequate testing. But the LHC people say that it is hard to troubleshoot the VM projects, apparently because the virtual machine itself gets in the way. But it could work OK under the right conditions. |
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Send message Joined: 1 Jan 15 Posts: 1166 Credit: 12,260,898,501 RAC: 1 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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what should be considered though is that VMs require virtualization capability of the CPU; older CPUs don't have this. |
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Send message Joined: 28 Jul 12 Posts: 819 Credit: 1,591,285,971 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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It is not a problem that I can see, except that people should be made aware that it will not work on older CPUs so that they don't waste time trying. But their GPU work units don't work on all cards either. You just don't run it in that case. |
robertmilesSend message Joined: 16 Apr 09 Posts: 503 Credit: 769,991,668 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Two years ago I did some crunching on VM without problems until I decided upgrade to a newer version of VM. Probably I did a mistake in the process and since then it has been impossible to install VM as always a missing archive is reported. I found others users of VM with the same problem and tips of how to fix it, but in my case it didn't work. Did you try uninstalling VirtualBox, restarting, then installing it again? That often helps with missing file problems. |
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Send message Joined: 22 Feb 14 Posts: 26 Credit: 672,639,304 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Did you try uninstalling VirtualBox, restarting, then installing it again? That often helps with missing file problems. The problem is that when I try to uninstall VirtualBox appears this message or a similar one: "VirtualBox-4.3.12-r93733-MultiArch_amd64.msi" is NOT FOUND (In a TEMP directory) and I can't continue the process of uninstalling. A tip in internet explains how to overrule this problem and some guys said that it works. But not for me. |
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Send message Joined: 11 Oct 08 Posts: 1127 Credit: 1,901,927,545 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Did you try uninstalling VirtualBox, restarting, then installing it again? That often helps with missing file problems. Have you tried re-running the original installer for that exact version, and then choosing to uninstall during the installer, or maybe repair, or maybe re-install ? Try all the options, using the original installer. |
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Send message Joined: 22 Feb 14 Posts: 26 Credit: 672,639,304 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Thanks for your help. Have you tried re-running the original installer for that exact version, and then choosing to uninstall during the installer, or maybe repair, or maybe re-install ? Try all the options, using the original installer. That's the suggestion I've been talking about. Usually it makes sense and sometimes works fine, but in my case, when I try to install always I get the same message whether I use the original version or a new one. |
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Send message Joined: 11 Oct 08 Posts: 1127 Credit: 1,901,927,545 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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When using the original installer ... Do you get any options for "Repair" or "Uninstall" or "Install"? Please try to be a bit more descriptive, with exact details, on what you've tried. :) ALSO If you can't get the original installer "options in the UI" to work, try this: - Run the original installer (but don't click anything in it) (I found it here: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Download_Old_Builds_4_3_pre24 ) - Open File Explorer, browse to: C:\Users\{User_Name}\AppData\Local\Temp - See if you have a "VirtualBox" folder there. If so, copy it to your desktop. It should have the .msi file you needed - Exit the installer - Reattempt to uninstall, and if you get prompted for the .msi file, try to have it browse to find it in the folder on your desktop Any help? |
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Send message Joined: 22 Feb 14 Posts: 26 Credit: 672,639,304 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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... try this: It has worked. Now I am going to wait for the finish of the ongoing tasks to install VM . I thought I had tried this trick before but surely I did not do well. Following your instructions has been very easy. Many thanks. |
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Send message Joined: 11 Oct 08 Posts: 1127 Credit: 1,901,927,545 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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You're welcome. I have quite a bit of VirtualBox experience in Windows. |
robertmilesSend message Joined: 16 Apr 09 Posts: 503 Credit: 769,991,668 RAC: 0 Level ![]() Scientific publications ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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I'm currently running a rather long RNA World VM task on one of my computers. 38 days elapsed so far, currently expected to run for another 60 days according to BOINC Manager. Its behavior suggests that the total run time will be closer to 120 days, though. The 5.0.* versions that can be downloaded with BOINC do not work well; expect to have to install a 5.1.* version to make it work well. I'm currently using 5.1.22 on the computer where it is in use and 5.1.18 on my other computer. These task cannot run simultaneously with an MT (multi-threaded) task from Cosmology@Home. BOINC Manager must suspend one to run the other, so usually both run mostly in priority mode. One of the input files must be a light-weight operating system, usually Linux, set up to run in the VM environment. However, this file rarely needs to change for other RNA World tasks, so downloading it once per client computer should be enough. Checkpoints are rather large, close to 700 MB each. Normally, only one is kept, so a failure while writing a checkpoint often does not leave any usable checkpoint. Applications that run inside the VM appear to be 32 bit only. I've never programmed for a VM environment, or for any flavor of Linux other then Linux emulators that run under Windows. |
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