I do have a problem with Gridcoin since a few weeks:
After a "blue-screen" I reinstalled my Back-Up: Gridcoinresearch.conf and the Gridcoin GUI client started normal.

After a few moments the program created a “Newbe” block?! And if Gridcoin does not stop completely afterwards, it states that Gridcoin it is not syncing and shows the following message: “Interest: 1 hour Syncing No Global CPID Kernal 611”.

Any idea what to do?

Thanks.

I'm perceiving the Gridcoin team & currency as the EVGA team in folding@home. The EVGA team used to give away GPUs as a prize for their members. I consider it as a good way of building a team & fan base. So I have a dream of that the Gridcoin will grow big enough to be accepted directly by some hardware vendors.

I really love that idea of receiving EVGA bucks for folding. I have just joined that team, thanks for the tip, Zoltan!

Having said this, the maximum bucks per month of 10 seem to be easily accomplished. My GTX1070 earns 700.000 per day whereas you only need 100.000/day to get the maximum of 3.000.000 per month = 10 EVGA Bucks. Which means the 1070 is an exaggeration, I don't get more bucks for the extra power spent.

From that view, it sounds like a GTX1050ti is sufficient, what do you think, Zoltan?

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I would love to see HCF1 protein folding and interaction simulations to help my little boy... someday.

Hi klepel!

You did the right thing to overwrite the Gridcoinresearch.conf as this would in most cases be empty after a crash. They will be an autobackup of the that .conf in walletbackup folder in userappdata.

At Oct there was an added security to protect users CPID (beacon v2). To this the the network generate a keypair (privatekey & publickey), with this wallet started to autobackup the .conf so users would not lose the keys. Some user may not upgraded the wallet in time before mandatory upgrade was released (Nov), so they have lost these keys. What would happend is those users would lose connection to the CPID in Network, but no coins would be lost as long as beacon exist.

The wallet would say No CPID in wallet and if you type in "execute beaconstatus" in console you would get more info and if there are any keypair issue.

If don´t manage to solve from backup please to us and we would help you. Click on chat on the wallet and i we would help you there.

/Gunde

I try to stay away from all *coin virtual currencies, it's all garbage. I think the state has it's important responsibilities and should maintain its official currency, other currencies should be made illegal. And especially those that require computer crunching are very bad - for the environment for instance.

Most Cryptocurrencies are as you described, a waste of power. Gridcoin is different, the computation is actually going to something useful, BOINC. So you as a user can choose to just volunteer your computation unpaid or get gridcoin for doing the same exact thing.

Most Cryptocurrencies are as you described, a waste of power. Gridcoin is different, the computation is actually going to something useful, BOINC. So you as a user can choose to just volunteer your computation unpaid or get gridcoin for doing the same exact thing.

Thank you, I do not think you are completely right, GridCoin seems to waste power and user time too. I followed your advice, tried GridCoin just for the sake of curiosity, but now I do not plan to try that deviant software again at least before I retire. And I am quite surprised how much attention it gets here and at BOINC in general. My trust in BOINC has decreased significantly.

I am also somewhat skeptical towards Gridcoin but I admittedly didn't try it yet. Can somebody possibly explain what's in it for the Gridcoin founders, when they donate virtual money to crunchers? How do they benefit from that? And if there is no particular company behind but just a community having a shrewd idea, why should anybody accept Gridcoin as a currency?

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

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I would love to see HCF1 protein folding and interaction simulations to help my little boy... someday.

I am also somewhat skeptical towards Gridcoin but I admittedly didn't try it yet. Can somebody possibly explain what's in it for the Gridcoin founders, when they donate virtual money to crunchers? How do they benefit from that? And if there is no particular company behind but just a community having a shrewd idea, why should anybody accept Gridcoin as a currency?

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

They aren't donating any money to the crunchers, the money is 'made' when you contribute to boinc. The allotted amount is 50000 gridcoin that is awarded per day to the entire network. This value per day is to keep the currency stable, something very valuable to a currency if you want to instill trust. You then get your share based on your magnitude which is your amount of contribution. Its value comes from its perceived value, if someone wants it, it is therefore valuable. I believe the creators of this currency have a strong belief in scientific computing and only want to see it grow. If you however don't believe that humans can actually have good intentions then you will find they accept donations. I have not found any devious intentions or ways for them to make a quick buck.

Thank you, I do not think you are completely right, GridCoin seems to waste power and user time too. I followed your advice, tried GridCoin just for the sake of curiosity, but now I do not plan to try that deviant software again at least before I retire. And I am quite surprised how much attention it gets here and at BOINC in general. My trust in BOINC has decreased significantly.

I'm not sure why you assume this has deviant intentions, as you did not explain why. I was skeptical at first as well but having been using it for over a year and looking at their facebook group filled with only scientifically enthusiastic people I see no ill intent.

Forgive me for still being sceptical. The most important cornerstone of a currency is the acceptance, which is legally defined by a state. Merchants in the regarding state are even forced by law to accept that currency. Of course they may also deal with foreign currencies but all of those are traceable to the same constitutional process after all.

I dont see that for Gridcoin, badges or even shells. Where admittedly some shells may have a nice collectors value.

Its value comes from its perceived value, if someone wants it, it is therefore valuable.

well, is it? Which store does accept Gridcoins as a trade-in "value"? And why should they? To me it rather sounds like a snowball system. The only company who may see any value in Gridcoins is the electricity distributor. Just my two Cents.

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I would love to see HCF1 protein folding and interaction simulations to help my little boy... someday.

Its value comes from its perceived value, if someone wants it, it is therefore valuable.

well, is it? Which store does accept Gridcoins as a trade-in "value"? And why should they? To me it rather sounds like a snowball system.

Bitcoin works on the very same principle, stores accept that. And Bitcoin is even more useless, literally turning electricity into heat, nothing more. Gridcoin is not well known enough to be at that level but the more people that use it the more respect it will have.

I'm not sure why you assume this has deviant intentions, as you did not explain why.

I do not believe in unofficial currencies. They are not good for anything. We should take care that the state and official currencies work well for all of us, rather than undermining them, rather than providing a "second reality", that breaks at the very first real crisis, in a situation when we will all depend on each other - in the one community that we will exist in, as contrasted to a virtual world community created by deviant computer scientists who seek the world domination and control, because they are not able to achieve it by natural means, even though they try to look very decent while doing that. Virtual currencies are based on *mistrust* in the mainstream society. Oh, I can't think of a better word for that than *deviant*!

Regardless of that - I stopped at the point when I learned that there is no other way to start earning GridCoins than joining the GridCoin BOINC team. This, in my opinion, goes against some of the most fundamental principles of BOINC. Many universities, or even countries, clubs, voluntary groups establish teams so that they *promote* the ideas of voluntary computing. GridCoin goes in the opposite direction: it builds on individual greed. People who dear to join do it for the sake of the shiny coin, for the sake of the low feelings of "I own!", and "I control!", which is exactly the opposite of the high motivations of joining BOINC: "I give!". Whatever, but how can GridCoin just put all those already teamed people (teamed for good reason!) out of the game and pretend that "this is it"??? NO, IT IS NOT. When asking about that, I got an answer: "you have a choice - if you want to earn money, you know what you have to do". Oh my! So why the hack there are teams in BOINC, if GridCoin destroys them? What a bad design choice! Does it not suggest that other choices of this community might also be weird?

And sure, they are. The main website has broken links in the tutorial, it advises you to go to join some funky IRC channels, where you are given false information and supposed to wait hours to get your first gridcoin for free, which is a requirement, if you want to join the network - or, you will find in many forums advises like "go to that forum and beg somebody to give or lend you some starting coins", so that you can emit some beacon and WAIT another looong time before you will see, if things are still broken, or you will eventually, maybe sometimes somehow be rewarded... while the gridcoin client will be using a lot of CPU resources on your PC without you knowing really what it does and why...
so THAT is an official SETUP procedure for a volunteer that is not necessarily computer-skilled? Are you trying to make me laugh, or what?
If you want people to use this, make a download package, where you click SETUP, and perhaps enter your CPID, and that's it. Stop talking about beacons, time windows, and other technical details, but tell the user instead what exactly is the gridcoin client going to do and use CPU for...

The false impression that GridCoin attempts to create - that you are actually not giving your computational time to good purpose projects for free, but you are being rewarded breaks at the moment you learn the exchange rate of GridCoin. Ah, yes, maybe later, if there will be sufficient deviant hope, things might change later.

Oh sure, we all watch the stats of BOINC, but that is for the sake of fun. These GridCoin people seem to look serious about their deviant craziness.

No, thank you, I have spent far too much time on this than I should have.
GridCoin is really NOT for me.

Bitcoin works on the very same principle, stores accept that

I have found a list of 15 relatively unknown German shops which accept Bitcoins (as from Sep/2016). So even this well known crypto-currency is difficult to spend and that doesn't get better for Gridcoin. Again, dont forget that all known hard currencies include the (national) obligation to accept it and therefore have at least one political economy behind to take responsibility in case of a serious value loss. That is what makes them valuable. Well, of course there are exceptions and some governments don't give a damn either if in trouble and simply print more banknotes. ;-)

GridCoin goes in the opposite direction: it builds on individual greed. People who dear to join do it for the sake of the shiny coin, for the sake of the low feelings of "I own!", and "I control!", which is exactly the opposite of the high motivations of joining BOINC: "I give!".

Hey, let them have it their own way, the Gridcoin crunchers do something good even so, no matter the motivation. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. My long shot guess is that the future reward for all the Gridcoins earned will never come, but I may be wrong.

Well, I have just noticed that we moved far away from the topic... shall we continue the discussion somewhere else?

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I would love to see HCF1 protein folding and interaction simulations to help my little boy... someday.

Pavel wrote:

PappaLitto wrote:

I'm not sure why you assume this has deviant intentions, as you did not explain why.

I do not believe in unofficial currencies.

There's no such distinction among currencies as unofficial. They can be made illegal or unacceptable by certain monetary authorities, but crypto currencies are perfectly legal (part of the present monetary system), as they can be freely exchanged back and forth to "real world" currencies.

They are not good for anything.

This is your opinion, but most of the rest of the world thinks it otherwise.
In certain extreme circumstances "real world" currencies also could be useless.

We should take care that the state and official currencies work well for all of us,

That's the job of the monetary authorities.

... rather than undermining them, ...

The present monetary system can undermine itself as the previous monetary crises (1933, ..., 2008) prove it. It is also the sign of that the monetary authorities are not in perfect control of the monetary system, either because they do not understand it well enough, or do not do their job well enough, or they are corrupted by their own power (or the combination of these). The intended purpose of crypto currencies (especially of bitcoin) is to reform or revolutionize the monetary system as a whole (in theory this system does not have monetary authorities, so there's nothing that can be corrupted). "Undermining" of real world currencies is only the consequence of this process (however it has not happened yet, and there's no sign of this).

rather than providing a "second reality", that breaks at the very first real crisis,

Every modern ("fiat") currency is a "second reality", they can easily broke down from time to time.

...in a situation when we will all depend on each other - in the one community that we will exist in,

I couldn't recall any longer period of my life when I did not depend on the community I live in.

as contrasted to a virtual world community created by deviant computer scientists who seek the world domination and control, because they are not able to achieve it by natural means, even though they try to look very decent while doing that.

This sentence makes sense for me only if I replace "computer scientists" to "communist/fascist dictators".

Virtual currencies are based on *mistrust* in the mainstream society. Oh, I can't think of a better word for that than *deviant*!

No. First, every currency is virtual. It is hard to believe when you can have it in your hand printed on a piece of paper called cash, but the most trivial proof of their "virtuality" called inflation. You are referring to crypto currencies as "virtual", but your statement is still wrong, as the crypto currencies are based on *mistrust* in the monetary system. The monetary system is only a part of the "mainstream society", however it is so important and powerful that it controls the whole. Crypto currencies want to change this (or at least I believe so). You can read my post about it here.

Regardless of that - I stopped at the point when I learned that there is no other way to start earning GridCoins than joining the GridCoin BOINC team. This, in my opinion, goes against some of the most fundamental principles of BOINC.

What "fundamental principles" are you refering to? BOINC is Berekeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing. This is a tool, like a Swiss army knife of (network) computing, there's no high ideals behind it. Only the user of this tool could have high ideals which will determine this tool's purpose. It could be used for anything in the range of "saving the world" to "make yourself incredibly rich and surrounded by beautiful women" depending on the ideals of the user.
I think that every volunteer is free to choose their team and their projects. Gridcoin certainly brought a new factor into this decision, making many volunteers to join them. This is new in BOINC, but there's similar promotion in Folding@home: if you join the team EVGA the company could reward you in hardware.
However, I think that the Bitcoin Utopia project goes against my ideals of supporting scientific projects through BOINC, as this project is actually selling BOINC credits for Bitcoins at an extremely high exchange rate. (This process is made to look like a donation, but it's commerce.) You can read my post about this here.

Many universities, or even countries, clubs, voluntary groups establish teams so that they *promote* the ideas of voluntary computing. GridCoin goes in the opposite direction: it builds on individual greed.

Every organization you've mentioned could have their own crypto currency for motivation, GridCoin is only the most innovative to make it work for the first time.

People who dear to join do it for the sake of the shiny coin,

How could a virtual coin shine? :)

for the sake of the low feelings of "I own!", and "I control!",

I can't speak for every teammate, but I did not join the GridCoin team / movement for what you say I did it for. I joined it in hope for a hardware promotion from vendors in exchange of GridCoins, but it has a very low chance to happen. I also joined GridCoin to make myself able to give more to GPUGrid by compensating my expenses a little. I don't think that anyone could actually achieve any profit by earning GridCoins, not even its makers.

which is exactly the opposite of the high motivations of joining BOINC: "I give!".

You can give more if you have more.

Whatever, but how can GridCoin just put all those already teamed people (teamed for good reason!) out of the game and pretend that "this is it"???

This team did not put anyone out of the game. They built their team in their unique way (at the expense of other teams). You sound like you are jealous because they outsmarted every other team.

NO, IT IS NOT. When asking about that, I got an answer: "you have a choice - if you want to earn money, you know what you have to do". Oh my! So why the hack there are teams in BOINC, if GridCoin destroys them?

Perhaps the teammates are not motivated enough to stay in their old team.

What a bad design choice! Does it not suggest that other choices of this community might also be weird?

Motivation results in choices. Teams are always competed for participants, GridCoin has its own unique motivation which comes from the "real world".

And sure, they are. The main website has broken links in the tutorial, it advises you to go to join some funky IRC channels, where you are given false information and supposed to wait hours to get your first gridcoin for free, which is a requirement, if you want to join the network - or, you will find in many forums advises like "go to that forum and beg somebody to give or lend you some starting coins", so that you can emit some beacon and WAIT another looong time before you will see, if things are still broken, or you will eventually, maybe sometimes somehow be rewarded...

I have 106k GRC, if anyone needs starting coins just let me know the address where I should send some.

while the gridcoin client will be using a lot of CPU resources on your PC without you knowing really what it does and why...

The gridcoin client makes the gridcoin network to be alive (distributing and storing transactions).

so THAT is an official SETUP procedure for a volunteer that is not necessarily computer-skilled? Are you trying to make me laugh, or what?
If you want people to use this, make a download package, where you click SETUP, and perhaps enter your CPID, and that's it. Stop talking about beacons, time windows, and other technical details, but tell the user instead what exactly is the gridcoin client going to do and use CPU for...

Why are the technical details so important to you when you deny the idea of crypto currencies?

The false impression that GridCoin attempts to create - that you are actually not giving your computational time to good purpose projects for free, but you are being rewarded breaks at the moment you learn the exchange rate of GridCoin.

How could be greed the motivation if the exchange rate of GridCoin is so low?

Ah, yes, maybe later, if there will be sufficient deviant hope, things might change later.

According to my friends and family it is quite deviant to spend this much I donate for scientific research, of which most probably I will never "profit", as it takes more than a lifetime. But in my vision it has more impact in our future than anything else I could do. But all we got here and now is only deviant hope for a better future.

Thanks. I have read that thread now. I think it confirms my grumbling to a large extent, but I join your deviant hope of a better future! :-)

But I am not going to answer the questions, you pointed out, there would be things to say, but no time for that.

For sure for a very little ant like me it does not pay off to join this. And even for your thousands earned, I think it hardly compensates the real cost of the extra power, time and effort you have invested into this deviant risk.

But primarily, I do not think crypto-currences are going in that direction of your "better future", as they lack the very basic princple I expect from a better future: a fair share of value and rights.

Founders and people joining those kind of deviant projects early accumulate too much "food" just because they started early, when they had a large piece of share. This is not fair towards users joining later on. I am not going to support a project that is based on flawed unfair principles in its very core idea.

And also, I understand now that it has nothing to do with any BOINC official strategy, it is just a bunch of guys who got together for their fun and created their own project. That's OK, but it was not very clear to me until now, I think they should explain themselves in a little bit better way, and of course, make the start much more easy, the current way is just too strange. From that thread you pointed to it is obvious that almost everybody is disappointed by the process of joining that club.

(for others in this thread - sorry for spamming you here :-), the last 10 messages were just moved here by moderator from another thread http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=4465)

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

There is if you partake of "recession lunch" at Costco. ;-)

How frequent you get a pay out from Gridcoin?

12-18 times per day.

What's your magnitude now Zoltan?

How frequent you get a pay out from Gridcoin?

It varies for me. Sometimes I go several days without any payout, other times I get 3 or 4 in a day.

I've participating in Gridcoin for about a year now and my total is about 20K GRC.

That's really good.