There is something I probably don't understand about the whole thing. If I were able to build up an ASIC miner farm that will be profitable over the time I would surely do this and start earning some (real) money. Having some more money to spend I'd presumably use it to go on vacation, make presents, buy a sport car etc. I would also give a percentage to people who really need money (there is plenty around the world). There are also scientific projects that I find interesting and (for a variety of reasons) are not able to get funds the 'usual' way.

On the other hand, if I decide to put all the ASIC miners into Bitcoin Utopia I get:
- A lost of 12% of the money just because of 'system handling'
- A very limited set of projects that I may choose for funding
- No tax deductions

So, where's the deal? Getting boinc credits?

How happy and proud i was with the fact i will join an exclusive club by getting my first billion credits this Year with science only! Thats more then much who crunch nonsense distrgen and so on. Now every noob can get a billion in some days. Thats a hard kick in my ass even when i dont crunch for credits, but it was something parallel to the publications i was proud of and calculated on boinc and not folding :(

I think we have been missing something in this conversation, we are GAINING overall Boinc crunchers with BU and it's asic machines, and that's a GOOD THING. When bitcoin crunching ends all those people can then be utilized at other projects to help with something else. We just need to find a way to make that happen before the end of mining comes.

As Retvari said I think some projects could be converted to use asic miners once the while bitcoin thing ends. After all what will people do if they can't crunch and who will buy them if they can't use them. I have no idea how miners actually work, but they are doing something akin to how gpu's did things when everyone was using cpu's. Gpu's needed special setups at each project, drivers etc, just to get them to crunch, it seems to me that with some work even an asic machine could be used to crunch. SOME projects have said they cannot make gpu apps for their projects, and some others don't want to, but there are some projects that don't have cpu units, they are strictly gpu based for their crunching. Asic miners still do math, and that's crunching!!

As for the credits that BU gives out I don't care one way or the other, the whole thing is said to end within a short period of time and as Steve said, the crunching gets harder every 2 weeks anyway. It will sort itself out in the end.

I'm sure many credits seeker out there [going to] sell all of their distr/collaz gpus to get a tons of BU ascis.

That is quite plausible course of action. That will hurt the other projects pretty soon.
I haven't thought of that, maybe because the primary reason for me to crunch is to aid science, not to collect credits.

There is something I probably don't understand about the whole thing. If I were able to build up an ASIC miner farm that will be profitable over the time I would surely do this and start earning some (real) money. Having some more money to spend I'd presumably use it to go on vacation, make presents, buy a sport car etc. I would also give a percentage to people who really need money (there is plenty around the world). There are also scientific projects that I find interesting and (for a variety of reasons) are not able to get funds the 'usual' way.

On the other hand, if I decide to put all the ASIC miners into Bitcoin Utopia I get:
- A lost of 12% of the money just because of 'system handling'
- A very limited set of projects that I may choose for funding
- No tax deductions

So, where's the deal? Getting boinc credits?

I think it's down to 8% now, but either way all the rest of the money is donated to projects that need to raise money to stay around. MilkyWay for instance is the #3 project units they crunch.

Boinc has never been about tax deductions, it is a way for the average person to help their favorite project and indulge their inner scientist, without doing umpteen years of Science to do it.

As for how many projects you can mine for, get YOUR favorite Boinc project to talk to BU, they are looking for more projects to support and have said they will talk to ANY project. There is no reason any project needing donations shouldn't be talking to BU in my opinion. All they can do is say no, if they say yes though it is a potential funding stream and another place for us crunchers to chose to spend our electricity money on.

Valterc: It is not possible to do anything else with ascis then bitcoin mining at all, thats why they are so cheap, and limited architecture to need low power and running really fast FOR BITCOIN MINING. When mining dies, ascis die too, some serious seller tell you that when buying some. They are NOT The GPU Generation 2 (power and functionalwise). So its not possible to say, asics are that what gpu was "after" cpu. And the difficulty raises, and? The power of the asics are raising too...thats how bitcoin works, so it will not drop creditwise dramatical. Thats my theory. So i can live with collaz/distr/primeguys until today, the projects are not so crazy like they was some years ago so its ok, but BU...schlägt dem fass den boden aus, in good old german ;) even when they instant reduce the credits by 100times for the future work as example, the maindamage is done. And every single day makes it look more crazy. The only way in my opinion is to exclude this project from boinc combined only, so user can still competitive within the projectstats but not with the rest of boinc projects.

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DSKAG Austria: http://www.dskag.at

I have no Problem with them taking BitCoin Utopia from the Combined Stat's, just as long as they do away with Combined Stat's altogether & let each Project stand on it's own. The BitCoin Project was / is allowed to be a BOINC Project so you Can Not Exclude it from the overall / combined Stat's.

To do so would be Highly Hypocritical is so much as the Stat's from all Previous Excessive BOINC Project's are allowed to be Combined with the Much Lower paying Project's

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STE\/E

I have no problem of project bitcoin @ Utopia
It's exactly the same situation as though some projects, scientists have developed an application for GPU performance and rac degrees from the cpu counting hundredfold.'s Happened years ago and also around that they were fierce debate.


Taking just the principle of science and scientific progress, we should support the counting on other future architecture-as it is now, for example, ASIC and others ..

When some people may benefit from a clusters in schools, universities or other public or private places only for your personal account for boinc .. or competition as BOINC Pentathlon or other competitions which runs constantly on various projects .. so if you're the Super Administrator at the University it's nice for your team ... and they do not make it legally .. their only excuse is-that it is good for the boinc project .. loool

ASIC is a challenge for scientists and programmers in BOINC projects as take advantage of this awesome efficiency.

STEVE- rac your credit or anyone else can not be deleted or moved to another statistics!

Is there any authority who can audit their credit policy? Do they think that they need to reduce their credits?

There have been people who have called for a Credit Reduction but they get shot down pretty quickly. The Admin of BU has also stated that he will not Reduce the Credits either, about the only way they get Reduced now a little is the difficulty increases every 2 weeks. Larger difficulty = slower mining = slightly less Credit's.

That is BU gives credit for bitcoins, not for crunching.
It's like if rosetta@home would give credits only for those who find the lowest energy protein configuration (ok, it's a bit of excess).

There have been several of us bumping against the 1 Billion Per Day Wall, several (not me) will start going over it today & some more in a few day's ... Really Ridiculous, it's like an Arm's Race, so & so got this Miner so they use that as an excuse that they have to keep up & get 2 more of them them selve's, then the other guy gets 2 more himself & so on. I'm seriously thinking about putting my ASIC's up for sale on E-bay & just go back to crunching CPU work which I enjoy much more than this Arm's Race going on now ...

This confirms that if someone is addicted to credits, he/she will sell his/hers non-ASIC (also expensive) crunching hardware to buy ASICs, which is quite logical decision. On the other hand, it will decrease the GPU/CPU crunching power of all projects. I think it will hurt the already known credit-factory projects like Collatz Conjecture, Milkyway@home & PrimeGrid, and probably the others too.
Let's check the charts to see if there's any correlation:

BitCoin Utopia: 182000% gain

Collatz Conjecture: 43% loss

MilkyWay@home: ~20% loss

PrimeGrid: ~12% loss

World Community Grid: ~5% loss

GPUGrid: ~10-18% loss

Again: this is only the beginning. The credit factory projects will loose more (up to 90% I think) than the other projects. If not selling all their crunching hardware (as it is also good for gaming), it's not worth to crunch on them, because it's very expensive to do compared to the ASICs.

Another way to look at it is from the point of view of those among us who are competitive and do care about credits as a reward for investment in a project. I have nearly always had at least 1 GPU on GPUGrid for the science ( except for periods when the units just keep crashing my system ). I am the number 1 in my taem on the project and the only one with a constant presence.
At the same time I ran Collatz etc to bolster my credit. Being able to run my ASICs for the benefit of Milkyway after they lost their funding was why I put them on Bitcoin Utopia. The credit from BU sated my competitiveness, so 5 more nVidea GPU's were transferred to GPUGrid. My AMD's are now all on Milkyway and Einstein.
Prior to BU I was already in the top 300 users for Boinc as are most of the current crunchers on BU, so not exactly the noobs suddenly turning up and passing you all by. Most of the users you are talking about are credit orientated anyway and have bought equipment to further those aims.
After following this thread and the hysteria and venom at a project not toeing the official boinc credit line , do you want to guess whether my 6 nVidea cards are staying here or going back to Collatz ?

This confirms that if someone is addicted to credits, he/she will sell his/hers non-ASIC (also expensive) crunching hardware to buy ASICs, which is quite logical decision. On the other hand, it will decrease the GPU/CPU crunching power of all projects. I think it will hurt the already known credit-factory projects like Collatz Conjecture, Milkyway@home & PrimeGrid, and probably the others too.

So how many CPU only Projects were Hurt when the GPU Work started to Flow, I read countless Post's in some Forum's that they were turning off their CPU's & running GPU Work only.

Sure it was a Boon for the GPU Project/Projects as People migrated towards them but it hurt the CPU only Projects too ... IMO

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STE\/E

Retvari: mhm milkyway isnt giving you that much credits anymore since a longer time. I get way! lower credits ( max 200k on a good day) there for a fully loaded OC 7950hd witch is compareable with a minimum of 300k nvidia card on gpugrid ;) yesyes i now dp/Sp opencl cuda blabla ;) i know but only as general ;) wish i could use it on a medical project again, but poem has soooo low ati workunits counts, never got one while trying one hour -_-

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DSKAG Austria: http://www.dskag.at

This thread is not about BitCoin itself, but I have to clarify some misunderstandings.
I'm not against changing the world. BitCoin (and the other crypto currencies) is about changing the the basis of the economy of the whole world (that is the monetary system). I think that it can't be done against the will of the participants of the economy. If the powers of the monetary system wanted to change the basis of the economy all of us living in, it could have been done long ago. The so called socialism (or communism) - beside many things - was (or at least it was intended to be) an attempt to do that. This attempt has been failed, not just because the "communist" block was preparing for WW3 all the time of its existence (I lived in it for 20 years, so I know it from the inside), as the other block did the same. I think that the change the crypto currencies bring to the current monetary system are against the interest of the powers of the monetary system, as it would diminish (or even end) their influence on the source of their power. This power comes from the fact that they can change (usually lower) the value of the money by issuing more of it than needed. This is not a bad thing while it has a fairly low rate, because no one wants to keep the money in the long term, because it will devaluate over time. So one could either spend it, or invest it, or put it in a Bank (and they will invest it), which will result in a growing economy. The point of modern (so called fiat) money is that it's an infinite resource, therefore it could finance the growth of the economy for all eternity :). But the powers controlling the flow and creation of fiat money have to be very aware of how the others spend/invest this money, because there are some monetary entities, which has only one purpose: to grow as big as they can by exploiting the infinity of fiat money. On the other hand, if money would became more valuable over time, it would decrease the flow of itself, result in a decaying economy which would lead to mass loss of jobs (which is pretty bad).

This discussion and the concept of Bitcoin itself is meaningless..

The discussion of any subject is always useful: it could make the ignorant learn something about the subject.
About the meaning of BitCoin: "everything has a purpose, if nothing else it could serve as deterrent"

Bitcoin reads "fraud, thieves, you will lose your money!" all over it.

The powers of the current monetary system makes you believe it, partly because the powers pushed out of the monetary system (that is criminals) have to use alternative currencies.

Any form of money / currency is only as good as the entity that is behind it and vouches for it.

While the "good" sound familiar, its quite incomprehensible when talking about complex entities who have many faces, beside issuing money.

Since the invention of the concept of currency, there has been a sovereign entity behind each currency. This is what creates the faith in party A that the money it has taken from party B for providing some service or good will in actual fact carry its value in the foreseeable future.

This is the part of the monetary system based on fiat money what the common people perceive. But it's much more than that.

Where is that entity behind Bitcoin?

Nowhere. There is no entity behind it, only the users of it ("the network"). That's why it's revolutionary. That's why nobody knows how it's gonna work out. If there's big enough crowd behind it, it could work. But only if the current powers of the current monetary system will resign their powers.

I hear people crying out "the Network", well let me ask "the Network" to vouch for the value of my Bitcoins and guess what "the Network's" response will be. The picture of a slowly rising middle finger forms in my mind!

The problem with "the network" is that the economy cannot work without a power who throws out those who seek deals where they win by the other party's loss.

It is either that, or exchanging gold / silver / diamonds / some other valuable material, like corn for example. "Value" means it can be used by people to some end. Silver, gold and platinum (and other precious metals) have extremely good physical / chemical / electrical / thermal / etc properties, which make them suitable for many uses, including making long-lasting ornaments. Corn makes bread, the basis of human diet.

Is there so much corn in the world which can be exchanged for a fusion power plant?
The gold became the carrier of value because at that time it couldn't be used to make anything useful (as a tool or weapon), as it is soft (when pure) and dense (heavy), while it don't corrode on air.

In contrast, what can one do with Bitcoin? Can one eat it, make a tool out of it, create a long-lasting (practically invulnerable to nature) item from it?

Can you eat a dollar bill, or a plastic credit/debit card, or gold? These things only work while the economy is working as it is working now. When something would hit the economy hard (like a war), the people would receive bread for tickets, not for money. While this sounds odd, they will be happy because they lived.

No. People give it value because it is practically finite. Well, so are prime numbers, should we start trading in primes?

While the known prime numbers are finite, there are infinite prime numbers exists. However they become more sparse as they become larger.
When the basis of the monetary system was gold (a finite resource), it has limited the growth of the whole economy, as there wasn't enough gold in the system to support its growth. The modern economy passed over this phase, that's why we live in better circumstances than ever before. There is a finite number of BitCoins, however it can be split infinitely (as far as I know). This is quite the opposite of fiat money.

Excellent post Retvari. Everyone could gain a greater perspective of the monetary system by watching the Zeitgeist movies, for a start. Youtube is one place to find them. Our current monetary system perpetuates our oligarchical societies and many (if not most) of the problems we have in this world. Even cryptocurrencies make more sense than the current system, which has no valid basis behind it at all. Money is manufactured at will by the central banks according to their whims and according to their current self serving economic theories (how to prop up "economies" and those in charge of them). It is an increasingly corrupt and singularly self serving system. It is backed by weapons and fear. Unfortunate for all but a tiny percentage of the population.

Money is not the reason of evil, it is its product. If there should be no money anymore, there will be another evil. We (people) will surely take care of that! Like always in human history. It's all about people, our nature.

BTW, my RAC at vLHC@Home is ~2500, which is a really good score (15. place) :-D And I believe it's a good and useful thing. Not like those empty numbers at BU, or some other projects, that just waste power.

Lets get back on topic about BU and away from monetary theory.

While the GPU and CPU debate is well known and discussed, both processes produce a valid research result for their project. We can discuss the projects validity in another thread or privately. The meaningful query here is that BU does not generate a valid research result, it helps solves a algorithm to release bitcoins. The actual purpose of that algorithm being processed does what again? When the algorithm is completed or at some other point during its computational life does the algorithm generate a result/answer that finds the meaning of life and the pursuit of happiness? A cure for cancer, ebola and the common cold? Does someone on this planet know the answer?

What is the purpose or meaning of the algorithm other than releasing bitcoins?? Why was BU allowed to use the BOINC platform for their purpose?

Why was BU allowed to use the BOINC platform for their purpose?

Because BOINC can be used by anybody for their own distributed computing projects, either public or private would be 1 good reason. If you don't like a Project then you don't have to run it ...

Right from the BOINC Project List ... http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/project_list

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STE\/E

How happy and proud i was with the fact i will join an exclusive club by getting my first billion credits this Year with science only! Thats more then much who crunch nonsense distrgen and so on. Now every noob can get a billion in some days. Thats a hard kick in my ass even when i dont crunch for credits, but it was something parallel to the publications i was proud of and calculated on boinc and not folding :(

Reached 1Billion boinc-wide a day or so ago, and glad that milestone is behind me too, as I fall down the rankings...
http://stats.free-dc.org/cpidtagb.php?cpid=ccd132458da90a454e2065e34b1d7cfa&theme=21&cols=3
Doesn't include some retired projects, or previous accounts,
http://stats.free-dc.org/cpidtagb.php?cpid=ee8e4512e5c14def7a1170807d844299&theme=21&cols=3

I think we have been missing something in this conversation, we are GAINING overall Boinc crunchers with BU and it's asic machines, and that's a GOOD THING. When bitcoin crunching ends all those people can then be utilized at other projects to help with something else. We just need to find a way to make that happen before the end of mining comes.

While BU might have attracted a few ASIC miners to Boinc, on the whole I think BU is not attracting new crunchers but is attracting existing GPU and CPU crunchers who are not only moving to BU because of the credit but are abandoning/reducing their GPU and CPU input for other projects, and 'investing' in ASICS purely for Boinc credits.
Further, any ASIC miners who are attracted to Boinc will soon realise the relatively poor credit from GPU's and CPU's especially, and probably won't do a lot of scientific crunching.

As Retvari said I think some projects could be converted to use asic miners once the while bitcoin thing ends. After all what will people do if they can't crunch and who will buy them if they can't use them. I have no idea how miners actually work, but they are doing something akin to how gpu's did things when everyone was using cpu's. Gpu's needed special setups at each project, drivers etc, just to get them to crunch, it seems to me that with some work even an asic machine could be used to crunch. SOME projects have said they cannot make gpu apps for their projects, and some others don't want to, but there are some projects that don't have cpu units, they are strictly gpu based for their crunching. Asic miners still do math, and that's crunching!!

ASIC miners are designed to mine. Someone might come up with another 'use' but it's probably not going to be an existing science project.

As for the credits that BU gives out I don't care one way or the other, the whole thing is said to end within a short period of time and as Steve said, the crunching gets harder every 2 weeks anyway. It will sort itself out in the end.

It's already messed up the Boinc credit system/exposed fundamental weaknesses.

...

As for how many projects you can mine for, get YOUR favorite Boinc project to talk to BU, they are looking for more projects to support and have said they will talk to ANY project. There is no reason any project needing donations shouldn't be talking to BU in my opinion. All they can do is say no, if they say yes though it is a potential funding stream and another place for us crunchers to chose to spend our electricity money on.

Any project that asks for BU to mine on it's behalf is condoning BU. Clearly most projects don't want to back BU, even for some financial reward, otherwise they already would have.

...

So how many CPU only Projects were Hurt when the GPU Work started to Flow, I read countless Post's in some Forum's that they were turning off their CPU's & running GPU Work only.

Sure it was a Boon for the GPU Project/Projects as People migrated towards them but it hurt the CPU only Projects too ... IMO

You are comparing the move from Scientific Research on CPU's to Scientific Research on GPU's+CPU's, with the move from Scientific Research on CPU's and GPU's to mining (not scientific research) on ASICS.
GPU's and CPU's are otherwise useful while ASIC's are not, and can't even perform scientific research.
GPUGrid went from PS3 crunching to GPU crunching.
Projects such as MW and WCG run/ran both CPU and GPU projects simultaneously. In the case of WCG when they released OpenCL GPU tasks many people attached their GPU's to that project and shifted their CPU's to other WCG projects.

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FAQ's

HOW TO:
- Opt out of Beta Tests
- Ask for Help

You are comparing the move from Scientific Research on CPU's to Scientific Research on GPU's+CPU's, with the move from Scientific Research on CPU's and GPU's to mining (not scientific research) on ASICS.
GPU's and CPU's are otherwise useful while ASIC's are not, and can't even perform scientific research.
GPUGrid went from PS3 crunching to GPU crunching.
Projects such as MW and WCG run/ran both CPU and GPU projects simultaneously. In the case of WCG when they released OpenCL GPU tasks many people attached their GPU's to that project and shifted their CPU's to other WCG projects.

So you are saying people have been moving around to the different Boinc projects since the beginning but NOW it's a problem? If a project depends SOLELY on crunchers to support it thru donations they are going to be shut down soon. UNLESS they can do something different then every other project that is also competing for their interests. Most Since type projects are so far beyond the average cruncher that the only way for the cruncher to help is thru Boinc or cash. How many people, that crunch, can sit down and design an algorithm to map the MilkyWay, let alone convert that into something a computer could help with? How about the average cruncher designing some protein folding model on the back of a napkin? Most of us would say 'huh what's protein folding?', let alone then write software so a computer can help!

In short projects need to grab and keep our interest, right now BU is doing that thru very high credits and the idea that while getting those credits we can help support projects like MilkyWay TOO!! The grabbing and keeping our interest thing is what Seti tried in the beginning, but they have been at it sooo long with no reported successes that people are losing interest in them. Sure it could be fun to find some 'little green men, but are they even close? Who knows, they certainly have no clue, it could be today, tomorrow or 50 years from now. At least projects like MilkyWay, Rosetta and others do have some results and the potential of more all the time. BU on the other hand has results RIGHT NOW TODAY, you can SEE the numbers going up as we crunch their units and the money being generated because of that crunching. That is a HUGE draw for people who just want to SEE that all their crunching IS in fact helping!!

For waaaay too long Boinc Projects, in general, have accepted our contributions yet VERY FEW even acknowledge that help in any Scientific Papers they file! MY contributions ARE helping someone someplace, but I don't know to what degree because they don't tell me!! BU IS showing me, they have a chart that IS going up and up across all 3 of their current projects that shows the money that is being given to each project, and it is going up all the time.

MalariaControl was one of those projects that did tell it's crunchers the results of their work and how it was being put to use in he field! MilkyWay does too, they now have a picture showing how much of the Milky Way has been mapped. PrimeGrid also gives feedback to its users when they find a new prime number. That, to me, makes those projects interesting and keeps me crunching for them. BU is doing the same thing, and is why I also crunch there.

While BU might have attracted a few ASIC miners to Boinc, on the whole I think BU is not attracting new crunchers but is attracting existing GPU and CPU crunchers who are not only moving to BU because of the credit but are abandoning/reducing their GPU and CPU input for other projects, and 'investing' in ASICS purely for Boinc credits.
Further, any ASIC miners who are attracted to Boinc will soon realise the relatively poor credit from GPU's and CPU's especially, and probably won't do a lot of scientific crunching.

Make no mistake about it, anyone who's been crunching science projects as competition for BOINC credits is now thinking of dumping their machines. A huge loss for science.

So how many CPU only Projects were Hurt when the GPU Work started to Flow, I read countless Post's in some Forum's that they were turning off their CPU's & running GPU Work only.

You are comparing the move from Scientific Research on CPU's to Scientific Research on GPU's+CPU's, with the move from Scientific Research on CPU's and GPU's to mining (not scientific research) on ASICS.
GPU's and CPU's are otherwise useful while ASIC's are not, and can't even perform scientific research.

I for one put on more boxes to run more GPUs. Those X6 Phenoms also run 4-5 CPU WUs each, a plus for for both CPU & GPU SCIENTIFIC computing. ASICs do no science and do no CPU or GPU WUs on the side. Switching to ASICs is a huge loss for science as the machines that actually run the science go away.

Maybe the stats sites could add a new category: "Total credits for science projects" and replace the current total with "Total credits with cryptocurrency schemes". Maybe even put cryptocurrency projects in a separate class for those who want to run them and not mix the totals at all.

One of the things this thread has shed (plenty of) light on is a hidden motive of some high-level crunchers for crunching for GPUGRID (or perhaps more generally for GPU crunching):

Big bucks (sorry credits)!

I keep reading posts about how altruistic people are and how they go off buying expensive kit to crunch for science.. and then they go off whining about how unfairly BU gives tons of credit in a day, that they have taken years to get!

I don't understand, aren't you doing it for the science??

If you are really doing what you do for the science of the thing, why whine so much about the credits?? Ignore them! At least, ignore non-GPUGRID credits! They won't be affected by BU or any other nonsense we-re-here-to-help-the-children(-and-make-a-buck-ourselves) type of project!

If you primarily care about your position in the combined world Boinc charts though...

perhaps Dagorath was right.

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Complains to BU reminds me complaining multimillionaire to billionaire..

I will explain------

User under the nick-name-bcavnaugh in the project -theskynetPogs
Must use this enormous and expensive hardware for credit F*** ONLY RAC 250 000 approx...

4P 64 Core AMD Rig GTX 650Ti
2P 32 Core AMD Rig GTX 660Ti
Intel i7-4960X 3 GTX Titans
Intel i7-3970X 3 GTX 780
Intel i7-3970X 3 GTX 690
Intel i7-3770K 3 GTX 680 Classified
Intel i7-3930K 2 AMD R9 290X

ONLY ON CPU!!!! skynetpogs is one of the most effective projects for the cpu only!!! Others boinc cpu projects are less efficiently programmed.

How expensive graphics cards YOU need to rac 250,000 to GPUGrid ?? 100-200 EU from secon hand....loooool

Nobody here did not complain that this user has to spend so much resources on 250,000 rac but to complain when someone have million more per day, while ASIC machine set to count without errors is hard to..more hard than just instal boinc manager and run..


So this pitiful screeches and cries from some users here as to the shape of rac does not matter to them ..Now it turned out that they are dependent only on rac..lol..

You are completely laughable when you complained to the project BU...

I only hope that the leader and pioneer BOINC projects ,SETI elaborate the beta application for ASIC and other effective machines..

takk