Almost sounds like you run out of water in that liquid cooler :D

And don't worry too much about the thermal paste. Apply a thin layer, maybe a small additional spot in the middle or not. Then once you place the heat sink press and twist it lightly back and forth. This will distribute the paste just fine, if it's not super-viscous.

MrS

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Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

Then once you place the heat sink press and twist it lightly back and forth. This will distribute the paste just fine

Hey, I was going to say that too but I forgot :-)

The biggest mistake people make when applying heatsink compound is using too much. The compound layer needs to be as thin as possible, to conduct the heat from one solid to the other, but cover as much of the CPU and heatsink as possible (all of them). Obviously heatsinks that don't cover all of the processor are of lesser design.
I prefer the thinner (less-viscous) spreads as you can get a more even layer and you know it will spread itself out, even if you don't because you have applied too much proof :)
When using the less-viscous compounds I tend to spread it on the processor and the heatsink (very thinly). I push down and twist the heatsink around a bit before tightening at opposite angles, bit by bit.

After all the pro tips, if you cant apply resin now, you have no chance.

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Thank you all guys, this is very useful information.
I have checked and have a lot of alcohol type in house but not iso-alcohol, it is a bit hard to get, but will try Uni again.

I have the liquid cooler built out completely and did not find any leaks or any openings to check or fill the radiator. Its rather small all in all, no tack like in a car. According to Dell it is not water but a special liquid.
The tubes are stiff and seems to mounted and then heated or so to let them shrink. As far as I can judge it, it is not possible to remove a tube without damaging it. There are no clamps used as other systems does.

At first I thought this was my first and only water cooler. But I have watched a lot of systems today, in preparation for my new system to build, and saw a lot of water coolers, even on the graphics. So perhaps in the future, if I heard or read more experience of it.

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Greetings from TJ

Here's a video I found VERY helpful with applying thermal paste: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXLu1Ms-q4

In the video, you can see that the layer method is actually worse than the other ones. From what I understand, because of air trapped between the top surface and the not perfectly flat paste layer.

I like to use the line method, especially with heatsinks that have their heat pipes directly touch the CPU: I apply a line of paste perpendicular to the pipes.

I've also tried the X / cross method a couple times. Never had a problem, really.

As skgiven advices above, the key is to NOT apply too much.

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I don't know which engineer invented the push pins to mount a Shuriken B, but it is absolutely not working. The pins are under the cooling body with ample space!

The whole thing keeps moving and moving over the CPU while trying to push one pin in. (When taking of it is seen that only half of it was smeared with paste.) Then the other is not in its place, as they move very loose in the holder and I can not get it installed. I tried long enough, almost out of past and it is Friday evening so I won't be able to get it.
The cooling body is larger then the area with the push pins, so there is no room for fingers to push and my fingers are quite small. Also tools won't get applied to push.

Terrible they make to cases so small that a normal cooler with screws wont fit.
Well then the Intel cooler must be used. It has push pins as well, but they sit next to the cooler aluminum body. So I can replace them with the screws from the liquid cooler.
I am not enjoining this. All I want was to replace the GTX285 with an GTX660 in the i7 with the XFX MOBO, and then problems start with me installing and deinstalling cards and stuff. Buying an old T7400 (which was advised no to, but the thing is crunching without problems and cool with an GTX660 in it and 5 Docking tasks on CPU for 370W/h.
I take a rest for 15 minutes and hope for some inspiration...

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Greetings from TJ

Here's a video I found VERY helpful with applying thermal paste: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXLu1Ms-q4

In the video, you can see that the layer method is actually worse than the other ones. From what I understand, because of air trapped between the top surface and the not perfectly flat paste layer.

Nice video, thanks. That's why I always put a rice sized drop in the middle along with the thin spread. Have also tried the cross and line methods as well as the dab in the middle only method. I seem to get most consistent results with the thin layer plus dab in the middle, but my testing has been pretty subjective. The sheet of glass test is an interesting idea.

Well skgiven you are right again, I am turning mad...
I am still being installing a cooler since 3 o'clock this afternoon, haven't eaten yet and won't be anymore.
The push pins never fir and to get them out of the Intel cooler I had to cut them.
I drilled the holes wider so that bolts could fit, but than there was room. The bolt and the white part of the push pen had space to move 6 mm in the holder, that fit around the aluminum element. The solve this is first used springs but helped not enough. Eventually I cut the white parts shorter and use two rings. Now the screws go 3mm in the holder, the back plate in the Aliennware (what a terrible case). If this was not the last thing I got from my dad I would have smashed it against the wall.
And if the temperature of the CPU will went to 85°C I will.
But that is not all, if Murphy is around... off course a piece of the black part of the fitting that holds the aluminum element broke, so I had to glue that and wait for it to dry. And last but not least the aluminum felt out of my hand and isn't perfectly round anymore. As said way earlier in this thread, dark forces reign over the Alienware. Its my first and only. I guess Dell is out of sight as well. Not bad experience but there are almost no options anymore in the Netherlands the let a system build as one likes.
I will build one myself in a roomy case, in the largest case I can find, with a minimum on devices no crap that I don't use.
Or I can build one GTX690 and put that in the old T7400, but than no new system(s) this year anymore.

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Greetings from TJ

Here's a video I found VERY helpful with applying thermal paste: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXLu1Ms-q4

In the video, you can see that the layer method is actually worse than the other ones. From what I understand, because of air trapped between the top surface and the not perfectly flat paste layer.

Nice video, thanks. That's why I always put a rice sized drop in the middle along with the thin spread. Have also tried the cross and line methods as well as the dab in the middle only method. I seem to get most consistent results with the thin layer plus dab in the middle, but my testing has been pretty subjective. The sheet of glass test is an interesting idea.

Yeah great catch Vagelis. The glass plate shows indeed what happened. I had it smeared like that and perhaps there where air bubbles between the CPU and the water cooler.
I try three lines and then push and take it off to so how evenly it went.
I have past for to attempts, so will just work, or not...

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Greetings from TJ

TJ, I really do hope your adventure has a good ending!

All too often, computer parts are of too low quality, making our lives miserable...

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Nice video, thanks. That's why I always put a rice sized drop in the middle along with the thin spread. Have also tried the cross and line methods as well as the dab in the middle only method. I seem to get most consistent results with the thin layer plus dab in the middle, but my testing has been pretty subjective. The sheet of glass test is an interesting idea.

The sheet of glass thing is a GREAT idea that made me think how come I never had it!

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Oh dear TJ, that sounds like a very unhappy exercise!

While it's done now.. did you take the mainboard out to try to mount the new cooler with push pins? It's kind of a pain to mount / unmount a mainboard, mainly due to the LED cennoectors.. but then you should be able to apply pressure onto the pins even under the cooler. I always mount the cooler before mounting the mainboard, if I have the chance to do so (i.e. not just exchaning it). Also gives me a nice mechanical handle for the board :D

MrS

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Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

Eventually I got it working. Mom learned me to always keep calm, whatever happened. Let it rest for a time, do something else and then go further until you get it done.

The Alienware is running, but not for long I guess. Boinc had still 7 docking WU's in its manager when I powered the system up. Temperature went quickly to 84°C, when I suspended BOINC quickly it cooled down to 57°C. One WU and then temperatures around 65°C. I know the paste need some time, but perhaps there are air bubbles, that I will never know.

Now one Nathan LR and one Docking WU and temperature is between 58-72°C highly fluctuating. It has a nice temperature scheme, were I have set all 5 fans with increased speed, in fact increased all the curves. But this was my big cruncher, now it can not crunch even 4WU's. This is not what I expected.
The MOBO is fit 3 cm from the top of the case head, and around 4 cm down the CPU is another heat block (Alu.) with a 3x3 cm fan mounted. So a big cooler will never fit. It has to be a liquid thing.
A new case, what I thought first, will also not help, due to the cooling thing 4cm beneath the CPU.

Now it it not necessary to crunch full time. It is a choice. The idea was that if computer power is over by a user, BOINC could use it. But we made a sort of a hobby of it. PC's and parts have cost me quite a bit money and the energy bill is higher then from a colleague with 4 kids. We are only with two, and bedside computers do not use a lot electricity.
But I especially feel a need to crunch for projects with medicine for brain diseases and cancer. Mom died of a brain disease, and dad of cancer (was treated well and under control), but got later several brain tumors and then it went quick. I can never get them back, and I am sometimes still struggling with it. So if these diseases eventually can be treated (or completely cured), than that would be fine for other people. Please don't feel sad, that is not my intention.
But you all now know that I will keep asking a lot of questions about computers.
So I will build a new rig.

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Greetings from TJ

The GTX 550Ti did ran Milkyway at 974MHz clock speed. When I let it run GG, the Nathan LR failed quick. So I thought let's try a SR. The Santi keeps running but at clock speed 405MHZ at 98% load. So something happened with the card as it down-clocked again. Is the driver 314.22 the cause? 8% In 2 hours for a SR.

I also noticed something: When the i7, the Alienware, the quad and the T7400, are idle, or crunch CPU, the kernel times are all very low, sometimes not visible. But when GPU crunching starts, for GG of MW, then kernel times increase to about the half of CPU usage. Is this normal, or an indication that something is wrong?


GG = GPUGRID
LR = long run
SR = short run
T7400 = cheap refurbished Dell high end workstation with 1000W PSU but with little connectors.
MW = Milkyway@home

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Greetings from TJ

Before I went to bed I installed driver 314,07 on the quad again and boot it (Vista x86). The GPU clock ran at 974MHz but GG LR and SR fail quick. I turned to Einstein@home, and that seems to run, expected time 5 hours.
However when I checked this morning Einstein not finished yet and the GPU clock is running at 405MHz again.
So the driver is not good, or something else. Two days ago this system ran fine. The only thing I did was placing a GTX660 for a day.
So I need absolutely advise here what to do.

The Alienware kept running overnight and is finished in about 2 hours. I will power it down then. The old T7400 is running fine and will I let run.

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Greetings from TJ

Oh dear TJ, that sounds like a very unhappy exercise!

While it's done now.. did you take the mainboard out to try to mount the new cooler with push pins? It's kind of a pain to mount / unmount a mainboard, mainly due to the LED cennoectors.. but then you should be able to apply pressure onto the pins even under the cooler. I always mount the cooler before mounting the mainboard, if I have the chance to do so (i.e. not just exchaning it). Also gives me a nice mechanical handle for the board :D

MrS

Hello ETA, no I didn´t take it out. There is ample space so I would have taken out everything and there are a lot of cables and sensors attached. And it was not possible to remove the other side panel, that would make it easier.

It is mounted now but it cools not enough I think, an Intel box cooler. I can try a new water cooler later this year.

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Greetings from TJ

Regarding your GTX550Ti: MW can take quite a beating, GPU-clock-wise. And especially on nVidias it's using only a tiny fraction of their hardware (hence it's quite slow on most nVidias), generating not much heat. I'm not surprised the card can take higher clocks at MW than at GG.

BTW: when ever a driver reset happens in newer nVidia drivers the GPU stays in fail-safe mode (the 400 MHz in your case). I have not yet found a way around this other than rebooting.

If the GPU was running fine at these clock speeds before, it might be the summer finally showing its head over here. And chips gradually degrade over time, so it is expected that a GPU will reach 10 - 20 MHz less than last summer after a year of sustained crunching. You won't notice this if you didn't push it to the border of stability, though.

Regarding your CPU: so your liquid cooler was actually not that bad and probably not broken. I don't think it's the thermal paste which is responsible for these temperatures. I lost track of that machine a bit.. which CPU is it? The i7 960? Is the case open during these tests? Is it overclocked by Alienware? What's the CPU speed unter BOINC load?

MrS

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Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002

Indeed I reboot the quad with the 550Ti (VENUS) and it is at 974MHz again. Doing Einstein. Will try GG if they finished. And yes MW ran cool on it, seems about 150 seconds faster than on the 660? But could always be a light change in type of WU.

The Alienware is SATURN (I have them named after the planets and when the solar system is complete then I stop buying/building rigs :) ) All are visible now.
Its an i7 960 Bloomfield, not OC as far as I know its frequency is: 3408.45MHz (133.66x25.2), don't know what you mean by CPU speed under load. Where can I see that?
The case is closed, because the side panels have special flow area's fed by a fan in the lower front. The GPU's have a funnel with it's own fan. So cooling is better when it is closed. It is also 31°C on the attic. So ambient temperature is not helping, therefore I power it down when Nathan's has finished.

When typing this on VENUS I, see that the running Einstein GPU WU stopped and switched to another. Weird. But this results in the clock to go down to 405MHz.

So at this point I become dejected and must admit the rigs beat me. I let it run and go outside in the sun.

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Greetings from TJ

One more thing (for now), the Einstein WU stopped, hoovering with the muse shows this message: Not enough free CPU/GPU memory available! Waiting for 15 minutes.
And so went the next task.
What can the cause be? Vista x86 has almost 3.4GB that it can use, 1.88GB is currently used, two CPU Einsten WU's running.
The 550Ti has 1GB, uses 30% at the moment.

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Greetings from TJ

There's a BOINC setting "use at most xx% of memory", which might be set too low by default (I think you recently had some problem with the settings being reset, didn't you?). And if your GPU is idle (i.e. not enough memory to run any of them) then it's actually OK that it's clocked down. But then the clock speed should go up as soon as there's a load again.

Tools like CPU-Z or HWInfo64 can tell you what your CPU really runs at. Windows did get better at this job, but sometimes even Win 8 shows garbage values for me.

What you could do to immediately reduce temperatures and improve power efficiency of your 960 is to disable turbo mode in the BIOS. On mobile chips turbo is great, but in Bloomfield it was very weak anyway (+1 or 2 bins) and yielded significantly higher power consumption (Intel being very cautious with their first implementation of it).

MrS

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Scanning for our furry friends since Jan 2002