Advanced search

Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : GTX 960 not capable of doing tasks in less than a day?

Author Message
Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44108 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016 | 16:04:47 UTC
Last modified: 9 Aug 2016 | 16:06:27 UTC

Hi,

Yesterday I have downloaded a task for my gtx 960 to process and according to my BOINC client, it should've been done in 20 hours. Right now I'm at 25 hours and 4 minutes and have 1 hour and 8 minutes to go. It seems my remaining time went down slower than it should have because sometimes every two seconds I have seen it go down 1 second.

This is taking just as long as my old gtx 650ti BOOST was. According to the chart on gpugrid, I do see that the max sometimes is 38 hours, but average is 18.

Regardless what the stats are, is the remaining time issue natural or can it be fixed? Is it due to my gpu usage only being in the 50-60% area?

Jim1348
Send message
Joined: 28 Jul 12
Posts: 819
Credit: 1,591,285,971
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44110 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016 | 17:44:46 UTC - in response to Message 44108.

It depends on the work unit. I just completed a couple of GERARD_FXCXCL12RX on my GTX 960s running under Ubuntu 16.04, and they took 16 hours 8 minutes, and 16 hours 31 minutes.

On Windows 7 or 10, it would be somewhat longer; probably around 18 hours. Using the right driver would help:
http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=4319

But otherwise, you may have just gotten a slow work unit. There are some rather experimental ones around this summer.

Profile Retvari Zoltan
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jan 09
Posts: 2343
Credit: 16,201,255,749
RAC: 6,169
Level
Trp
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44111 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016 | 18:37:10 UTC - in response to Message 44108.

Yesterday I have downloaded a task for my gtx 960 to process and according to my BOINC client, it should've been done in 20 hours.
The BOINC manager only guesses the remaining time according to the value of <rsc_fpops_est> field of the given task and the task duration correction factor (which is established by the speed of the previous similar tasks). GPUGrid does not give different <rsc_fpops_est> value for different tasks (as it is very hard to calculate), so GPUGrid basically misleads the BOINC manager about task duration estimates. This method is right for tasks of which progress is not in direct ratio of their processing time.

Right now I'm at 25 hours and 4 minutes and have 1 hour and 8 minutes to go. It seems my remaining time went down slower than it should have because sometimes every two seconds I have seen it go down 1 second.
You should ignore the remaining time display in BOINC manager, and manually estimate the total processing time by dividing the elapsed time by the percentage completed. As the processing time is displayed as hours:minutes:seconds, first you have to change it to seconds as (hours*60+minutes)*60+seconds, then divide the result by the percentage completed as decimal value (for example you should divide by 0.015 if there is 1.5% completed). Then probably you want to convert it to H:M:S format by dividing the time in seconds by 3600, then multiplying the fraction by 60 gives you the minutes, then multiplying the fraction by 60 gives you the seconds.
I've found my example posted in last december:
Say 32.1% in 4h 35m 23s then your estimate would look like ((4*60+35)*60+23)/0.321=51473.52s 51473.52/3600=14.2982h 0.2982*60=17.892m 0.892*60=53.52s 14h 17m 53.52s


This is taking just as long as my old gtx 650ti BOOST was. According to the chart on gpugrid, I do see that the max sometimes is 38 hours, but average is 18.
The GERARD_MO_MOR workunits are slower (=more prone to the WDDM overhead) than the GERARD_FXCXCLxxxx. Faster GPUs are also more affected by the WDDM overhead.

Regardless what the stats are, is the remaining time issue natural or can it be fixed? Is it due to my gpu usage only being in the 50-60% area?
You should decrease the CPU tasks running on your host by (at least) 1, and set the SWAN_SYNC environmental value to make the GPUGrid client use a full CPU core:
Start button ->
type systempropertiesadvanced to the search box ->
press enter, or click on the result ->
click on the "Environmental variables" button near the bottom ->
click on the "New" button near the bottom (system variables section) ->
variable name: SWAN_SYNC ->
variable value: 1 ->
click OK 3 times ->
exit BOINC manager with stopping all scientific applications ->
restart BOINC manager

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44116 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016 | 21:30:27 UTC - in response to Message 44111.

I see that reading from the thread Zoltan has linked me, that windows xp doesn't have wddm which is better for the gpu to work faster, if I'm correct? (very plain remake of what I read)

And yes, Jim, I shall use the 359 driver from December of 2015.

To make things simple, shall I downgrade to windows XP? Will it make things easier? Seems like wddm has a lot of impact. I don't care for gaming on this computer like I used to. I have a spare hard drive I can just load xp on and save this SSD for my current windows 7 I have now.

Would I have to worry about anything after downgrading to windows xp and having the driver 359? Should I do the swan sync or is it not needed in XP?

I'm not very good on these things yet sadly. I appreciate you all helping me learn about more of how this stuff works and I've gotten general knowledge since joining this site and boinc in general. I wouldn't have it if it wasn't for bionc and you all! :)

And I also see that newer GPU's aren't supported by windows XP, however my gtx 960 is. I can just download the 359 driver and it'll work fine with boinc right? (assuming xp performs better)

I know I might be thinking very far ahead, but how would we be able to use brand new gpu's in the 10 series and later on in windows xp?

I've seen something on you can modify the "nv4_dispi.inf file", would this work with newer gpu's for when in the future I get a 10 series with XP? That has me a bit confused.

Profile Retvari Zoltan
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jan 09
Posts: 2343
Credit: 16,201,255,749
RAC: 6,169
Level
Trp
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44117 - Posted: 9 Aug 2016 | 23:48:45 UTC - in response to Message 44116.
Last modified: 9 Aug 2016 | 23:53:12 UTC

I see that reading from the thread Zoltan has linked me, that windows xp doesn't have wddm which is better for the gpu to work faster, if I'm correct? (very plain remake of what I read)
That's correct. Linux is also good.

To make things simple, shall I downgrade to windows XP?
Performance-wise it's definitely worth it.

Will it make things easier?
No. For example you still have to use SWAN_SYNC. There are less and less products available for XP day by day (browsers, antivirus etc.).

Seems like wddm has a lot of impact.
Sure it has.

I don't care for gaming on this computer like I used to. I have a spare hard drive I can just load xp on and save this SSD for my current windows 7 I have now.
You can make your PC dual-boot with EasyBCD, then you can have both OS on the same PC, so you can choose at startup which OS to boot.

Would I have to worry about anything after downgrading to windows xp and having the driver 359?
Network and chipset drivers are the major concern, but you have a first generation i5-650 its motherboard has Windows XP drivers. So there's no worries for you.

Should I do the swan sync or is it not needed in XP?
You should use it.

And I also see that newer GPU's aren't supported by windows XP, however my gtx 960 is. I can just download the 359 driver and it'll work fine with boinc right? (assuming xp performs better)
Yes.

I know I might be thinking very far ahead, but how would we be able to use brand new gpu's in the 10 series and later on in windows xp?

I've seen something on you can modify the "nv4_dispi.inf file", would this work with newer gpu's for when in the future I get a 10 series with XP? That has me a bit confused.
It is working, I've tried it with Einstein@home. However there was some mysterious lock-ups which I consider as the result of the immature drivers.

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44118 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 0:02:24 UTC - in response to Message 44117.
Last modified: 10 Aug 2016 | 0:04:26 UTC

Ah, things are a lot more clear now.

When the day comes, I'll have to look into the 10 series on XP a bit more.

What antivirus and browser do you use for XP, Zoltan?

I rather use xp because I've tried linux and it's a rough adjustment. Windows XP I've used for never a main PC, but I know the basics because my parents had it on their PC before.

Also, do you recommend I get the latest windows xp updates? I saw that new updates slow down the OS on one of the threads I was linked to.

About to install xp, I actually have a 2nd hard drive in my PC that I'll use. Will be back when it's done being installed and once everything gets settled, I'll start BOINC.

Luckily my bios has IDE mode so I'll make sure to enable that as well. Yes I got lucky with having the core i5 first gen cpu hehe.

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44121 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 6:55:03 UTC - in response to Message 44118.

Lots of good advice here.

So far I've found Ubuntu 16.04 LTS easy to use, though I would say there are lots of updates. I've installed it on 3 systems so far and will probably end up only using Ubuntu somewhere down the line.

If you install SP3 then most AV packages will work and there are several free editions such as AVG Free and Avast Free that still work. Ditto for firewalls.

If you have 2 drives then multi-booting is a good option. Probably best to crunch on the HDD rather than the SSD.
____________
FAQ's

HOW TO:
- Opt out of Beta Tests
- Ask for Help

Profile Retvari Zoltan
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jan 09
Posts: 2343
Credit: 16,201,255,749
RAC: 6,169
Level
Trp
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44122 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 8:07:34 UTC - in response to Message 44118.

What antivirus and browser do you use for XP, Zoltan?
I use an unmanaged (standalone) Symantec Endpoint Protection client, and Mozilla Firefox (or Google Chrome, which is stuck at 49.0.2623.112m).

Also, do you recommend I get the latest windows xp updates? I saw that new updates slow down the OS on one of the threads I was linked to.
You should get the updates. If you use the x86 version, you can make it to get new updates until 2019.

Luckily my bios has IDE mode so I'll make sure to enable that as well. Yes I got lucky with having the core i5 first gen cpu hehe.
You can install the AHCI drivers from an USB pendrive if you press F6 when the installer starts. You should download the driver beforehand from here.

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44125 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 17:30:29 UTC - in response to Message 44121.

Lots of good advice here.

So far I've found Ubuntu 16.04 LTS easy to use, though I would say there are lots of updates. I've installed it on 3 systems so far and will probably end up only using Ubuntu somewhere down the line.

If you install SP3 then most AV packages will work and there are several free editions such as AVG Free and Avast Free that still work. Ditto for firewalls.

If you have 2 drives then multi-booting is a good option. Probably best to crunch on the HDD rather than the SSD.


I have successfully installed XP 64 BIT SP2 on my older 40gb western digital black (wd400). I had issues with booting from usb but luckily I was able to take a dvd drive out of one of my towers and I had a spare 64-bit xp dvd that I was able to use. I never knew XP was so hard to install from a usb until yesterday.

I would try unbuntu but for now, I'm trying XP so I can use some programs that Ubuntu can't run.

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44126 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 17:35:58 UTC - in response to Message 44122.

What antivirus and browser do you use for XP, Zoltan?
I use an unmanaged (standalone) Symantec Endpoint Protection client, and Mozilla Firefox (or Google Chrome, which is stuck at 49.0.2623.112m).

Also, do you recommend I get the latest windows xp updates? I saw that new updates slow down the OS on one of the threads I was linked to.
You should get the updates. If you use the x86 version, you can make it to get new updates until 2019.

Luckily my bios has IDE mode so I'll make sure to enable that as well. Yes I got lucky with having the core i5 first gen cpu hehe.
You can install the AHCI drivers from an USB pendrive if you press F6 when the installer starts. You should download the driver beforehand from here.


Ok, thanks. I've installed over 100 updates and nothing else has popped up so I think that was it.

I have done the swan_sync step as well as installing the 359 driver.

So far gpu usage is at 97-98% all the time which is awesome!

I'm 12 hours and 10 minutes in the task and am at 26.5% complete..

I'm assuming this is just a longer task?

Profile Retvari Zoltan
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jan 09
Posts: 2343
Credit: 16,201,255,749
RAC: 6,169
Level
Trp
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44127 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 18:33:54 UTC - in response to Message 44126.
Last modified: 10 Aug 2016 | 18:35:41 UTC

I'm 12 hours and 10 minutes in the task and am at 26.5% complete..
I'm assuming this is just a longer task?

No, you have a GERARD_FXCXCL12RX, it should be done on a GTX 960 in ~55000 sec (15h 16m 40s).
You should check with GPU-Z or MSI Afterburner (or any similar GPU monitoring tool) if your GPU is downclocked (running at ~700MHz). If it is, then you have to restart your system to restore its original clock speed, then reduce the GPU clocks (even if it's factory overclocked), or increase its voltage.
Because of the higher GPU usage in Windows XP the cards could tolerate lower clock frequency than under Windows Vista~10 (the overall performance will be higher tough).

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44128 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 20:24:32 UTC - in response to Message 44127.
Last modified: 10 Aug 2016 | 20:25:17 UTC

I'm 12 hours and 10 minutes in the task and am at 26.5% complete..
I'm assuming this is just a longer task?

No, you have a GERARD_FXCXCL12RX, it should be done on a GTX 960 in ~55000 sec (15h 16m 40s).
You should check with GPU-Z or MSI Afterburner (or any similar GPU monitoring tool) if your GPU is downclocked (running at ~700MHz). If it is, then you have to restart your system to restore its original clock speed, then reduce the GPU clocks (even if it's factory overclocked), or increase its voltage.
Because of the higher GPU usage in Windows XP the cards could tolerate lower clock frequency than under Windows Vista~10 (the overall performance will be higher tough).


Gpu-z says my gpu clock is 1203MHz and my current is 1328.9 MHz (while running the project)

I see nothing that says 700MHz

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44129 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 21:21:19 UTC - in response to Message 44128.

That's weird.. just got back to my pc and after I turned my background off, the gpu MHz was around 400 and now it's back to 1328 MHz, it was bouncing for a few seconds.

My guess is the screensaver with the windows xp logo had something to do with it

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44130 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 21:29:31 UTC - in response to Message 44129.

Yep, put screensaver back on, and everything got very silent. I disabled the screensaver. Hope that fixed the problem...

Profile Retvari Zoltan
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jan 09
Posts: 2343
Credit: 16,201,255,749
RAC: 6,169
Level
Trp
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44131 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 21:54:24 UTC - in response to Message 44130.

Yep, put screensaver back on, and everything got very silent. I disabled the screensaver. Hope that fixed the problem...

It should.
There's a couple of "tweaks" I do, disabling the screensaver is one of which I do routinely, but I've long forgotten its reason.
The other is the power options. You should disable entering sleep mode. (It's not Windows XP specific.)

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44132 - Posted: 10 Aug 2016 | 22:02:02 UTC - in response to Message 44131.

Yep, put screensaver back on, and everything got very silent. I disabled the screensaver. Hope that fixed the problem...

It should.
There's a couple of "tweaks" I do, disabling the screensaver is one of which I do routinely, but I've long forgotten its reason.
The other is the power options. You should disable entering sleep mode. (It's not Windows XP specific.)



Thanks Zoltan, all taken care of. I'll report back after my next task starts. First I want this one to end instead of aborting it since I don't want to ruin my rep as well as me being halfway done right now.

Thank you everyone else as well, greatly appreciate it.

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44133 - Posted: 11 Aug 2016 | 3:02:30 UTC - in response to Message 44132.

Ok I'm going to sleep now and the task still had quite a bit to go, so I just aborted it (sorry admins)

I am starting a fresh one as I leave the computer with the screensaver disabled this time, will report back later.

Profile Logan Carr
Send message
Joined: 12 Aug 15
Posts: 240
Credit: 64,069,811
RAC: 0
Level
Thr
Scientific publications
watwatwatwat
Message 44136 - Posted: 11 Aug 2016 | 18:27:00 UTC - in response to Message 44133.

Success!

Finished a task in around 15 hours! Couldn't have done it without you all!

Profile skgiven
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Apr 09
Posts: 3968
Credit: 1,995,359,260
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44139 - Posted: 11 Aug 2016 | 20:57:33 UTC - in response to Message 44136.
Last modified: 11 Aug 2016 | 20:58:07 UTC

Glad you're sorted - Thanks Zoltan!
____________
FAQ's

HOW TO:
- Opt out of Beta Tests
- Ask for Help

Profile Retvari Zoltan
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jan 09
Posts: 2343
Credit: 16,201,255,749
RAC: 6,169
Level
Trp
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44140 - Posted: 11 Aug 2016 | 23:14:08 UTC - in response to Message 44136.

You're welcome!

Jacob Klein
Send message
Joined: 11 Oct 08
Posts: 1127
Credit: 1,901,927,545
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44159 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016 | 11:43:06 UTC
Last modified: 13 Aug 2016 | 11:43:26 UTC

PS:

I think the latest BOINC versions include a Task Property called "Progress Rate", which can help you get an idea of how fast the progress is progressing. I specifically worked with David to get this included, because I wanted to easily manually calculate completion time of GPUGrid tasks, without relying on BOINC estimation :)

So, it may be useful to you.

Profile Retvari Zoltan
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Jan 09
Posts: 2343
Credit: 16,201,255,749
RAC: 6,169
Level
Trp
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44161 - Posted: 13 Aug 2016 | 12:09:38 UTC - in response to Message 44159.

...the latest BOINC versions include a Task Property called "Progress Rate", which can help you get an idea of how fast the progress is progressing.
This property is present, however if you want to know how long it will take to process a workunit, you still have to do some math.
For example, it says the progress rate is 13.680% per hour for a GERARD_MO_TRV, then:
100%/13.680% per hour=7.31 hours 0.31*60=18.6 minutes 0.6*60=36 seconds
so, the time estimation in the form humans understand is: 7h 18m 36s :)

Jacob Klein
Send message
Joined: 11 Oct 08
Posts: 1127
Credit: 1,901,927,545
RAC: 0
Level
His
Scientific publications
watwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwatwat
Message 44162 - Posted: 14 Aug 2016 | 1:20:24 UTC - in response to Message 44161.
Last modified: 14 Aug 2016 | 1:21:38 UTC

:) I know, math is still involved. Just wanted to point out "Progress Rate" is available, for completion estimations that aren't based on factors like estimated flops or DCF.

[SG] Felix
Send message
Joined: 29 Jan 16
Posts: 11
Credit: 31,098,035
RAC: 0
Level
Val
Scientific publications
watwat
Message 45035 - Posted: 30 Oct 2016 | 10:03:45 UTC

i have a gtx960 too, but long runs are done in less than 2 hours

Caelus
Send message
Joined: 8 Nov 16
Posts: 9
Credit: 19,338,667
RAC: 0
Level
Pro
Scientific publications
wat
Message 45367 - Posted: 22 Nov 2016 | 18:46:28 UTC - in response to Message 45035.

i have a gtx960 too, but long runs are done in less than 2 hours

check again, those are short tasks.

Post to thread

Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : GTX 960 not capable of doing tasks in less than a day?

//