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Message 31754 - Posted: 26 Jul 2013 | 23:12:54 UTC

at all really or is it a lost slot? thanks

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Message 31761 - Posted: 27 Jul 2013 | 13:43:16 UTC - in response to Message 31754.

PCIe is backwards compatible, so newer cards should work fine in that slot. However, cards which mechanically fit such slots are normally really low-performance models, if you can find any. They're not suitable for GPU-Grid. And if there was a high-performance model it would be limited by the bandwidth.

This slot is meant for audio, network or storage controller cards.

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Message 31770 - Posted: 27 Jul 2013 | 19:13:07 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jul 2013 | 19:15:23 UTC

Im running a 570gtx in a (physical) x16 PCIe 1.0 @ x4 (electrical) Slot. Runs smooth. only 1% loss or so.

Or do you mean the Graphiccard itself should have a pcie x4 connector?
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Message 31781 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013 | 17:54:30 UTC

its actually a pci-e slot. The graphics card is more valuable than the motherboard in this case, as I have my eye on a 3 slot board that has higher bus speeds and will infact accomidate any card. But if what you are saying is accurate then I guess I start with decking out this computer with two more graphics cards. it has 2.0 pci-e x16, two of those, and one pci-e 1.0 x4. I mean I just dont want to waist money when I have a backup plan. So your sure its not a problem to run a 570 gtx in a pci-e 1.0 x4 slot?

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Message 31782 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013 | 17:56:18 UTC - in response to Message 31781.

heres the board model DX38BT, what i say is accurate tho so youd be waisting time.

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Message 31783 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013 | 18:56:20 UTC

Looked at a pic of the motherboard. So the slot is ok, and, like i said, have no problems with two 570 in pcie 1.0 x16 and a second x4 Slot you can see in my profile ;) witch is good enough for 560k rac. Dont know how it plays with 3 cards on the board and can only tell for fermi cards. Kepler could be more affected, but this must answere another guy i always buy only stable older but good hardware ^^
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Message 31784 - Posted: 28 Jul 2013 | 21:50:51 UTC - in response to Message 31781.

So your sure its not a problem to run a 570 gtx in a pci-e 1.0 x4 slot?

Well, currently for GPU-Grid the performance hit is not that much. Noone can guarantee you this won't change in the future, though. I see you already have a GTX650Ti Boost, which is decent but is a bit slower than a GTX570.. so this card should work even better in this slot.

Your newer card consumes a lot less power, though. When buying new GPUs: make sure they're Keplers (600 or 700 series) due to the vastly improved power efficiency. And rather than buying 2 small or medium cards go for 1 bigger card first. The reason is that bigger cards will stay useful longer and retain better resale value. The former is especially important for GPU-Grid, since you take a credit hit if you can't return tasks within 24 h any more.

Currently I'd buy GTX660Ti (should be on sale now) or GTX760 (slightly less power efficient and probably comparable performance here). GTX770 is a strong offering too, but a bit too expensive for my taste.

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Message 31787 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013 | 18:25:01 UTC - in response to Message 31784.

My card is 1500 gflops and a 570 is 1400. a five sixty is 1300. I mean were getting closer to the goal, but I thought we were going on gflops. I assume fermi is better than kepler.

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Message 31788 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013 | 18:31:58 UTC

gotta collect them all

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Message 31789 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013 | 18:49:07 UTC

The CC 2.0 Fermis can use all their shaders here, whereas CC2.1 Fermis (GTX560Ti and lower, GTX460 and lower) could only use 2/3 of their shaders here. It's the same for all Keplers, but the ratio seems to have improved a bit in recent app updates. When comparing cards of different architectures and CC levels GFlops are not everything. With the same CC level GFlops are a very good approximation, though.

I'd still say Kepler is definitely better than Fermi, here and for other projects, as it's significantly more power efficient, even if it needs some more GFlops to achieve the same performance.

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Message 31790 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013 | 18:56:40 UTC - in response to Message 31787.

I assume fermi is better than kepler.

It's quite the opposite. Kepler is better than Fermi. It's not just faster, but it's much better in the terms of performance/watt.

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Message 31791 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013 | 19:27:11 UTC
Last modified: 29 Jul 2013 | 19:30:20 UTC

Dont forget to tell a 560ti 384 is cc2.1 and 560ti 448 is cc2.0 (its a 570 with disabled, because defective?, shader cores. Only for the threadstarter ;)). Not that he is wondering why the performance between two cards with the same name could be so much difference in performance, thats not the pcie x4 slot then ;)
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Message 31792 - Posted: 29 Jul 2013 | 21:01:39 UTC

My question would be why would you recommend a 660ti over a 760. It probably doesnt matter to me in the end because a 760 is whats going to be concentrated on in the future is my opinion. I do understand the apps probably fit a 660 better currently. :D ill let you fill in the rest. 20 watts but for next generation power :\

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Message 31800 - Posted: 1 Aug 2013 | 9:19:01 UTC - in response to Message 31792.

In the UK the GTX660Ti costs less to buy than a GTX760. They should do about the same amount of work, and the GTX660Ti might be slightly more power efficient. The GTX660Ti might also work better at other projects which rely less on Memory Bandwidth, which hinders the GTX660Ti here somewhat (but this varies slightly depending on WU type). I found the stability and performance of my GTX660Ti to be good even when using the third slot in my system (PCIE2 X4) via a riser. The issue here is power; not all PCIE slots deliver good power, so the 2x6pin power connection (150W) actually matches the TDP of the GPU - it doesn't need to draw power over the PCIE slot and raiser. For me it's an excellent choice for the third slot of my main system.
I read a review of an Asus GTX760 which uses one 8-pin power connection. This is very attractive to me as I have a Corsair PSU with 4x6/8pin power connections. In theory I could replace the GTX660 (move it to another rig) and the HD5850 (pass it on) and get two GTX760's...
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Message 31801 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013 | 9:22:57 UTC - in response to Message 31792.

My question would be why would you recommend a 660ti over a 760. It probably doesnt matter to me in the end because a 760 is whats going to be concentrated on in the future is my opinion. I do understand the apps probably fit a 660 better currently. :D ill let you fill in the rest. 20 watts but for next generation power :\

There is absolutely nothing "next gen" about GTX760 and GTX770 apart from the name. They're exactly the same GK104 chip, just in different configurations. Any software optimization applies to them just as well as to the 600 series GPUs. The reason for the "new generation" is just plain.. well, a year has passed since the first Keplers, so there has to be something apparently new, doesn't it?

You might want to get GTX660Ti over GTX760 because it's cheaper (until supplies dry out) and crunches a bit faster unless memory bandwidth limits the cards (applies partly to GPU-Grid and more so to Einstein, but to no other project as far as I know).

@SK: wouldn't you rather get 2 more GTX660Ti's? ;)

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Message 31805 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013 | 21:57:15 UTC - in response to Message 31801.

ETA is 100% correct. A GTX 760 *is* a GTX 670. A GTX 770 *is* a GTX 680. There is 100% no difference whatsoever. Sure Nvidia bumped the clock/mem speeds up on the 700 series to make them *appear* faster. This is why TDP is higher. This is the same overclocking you could've done yourself at home for free, with better results. Do not purchase a 760 or 770 when the 670 and 680s are cheaper and still available.

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Message 31806 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013 | 23:01:53 UTC - in response to Message 31805.

ETA is 100% correct. A GTX 760 *is* a GTX 670. A GTX 770 *is* a GTX 680. There is 100% no difference whatsoever. Sure Nvidia bumped the clock/mem speeds up on the 700 series to make them *appear* faster. This is why TDP is higher. This is the same overclocking you could've done yourself at home for free, with better results. Do not purchase a 760 or 770 when the 670 and 680s are cheaper and still available.


Are you sure a GTX 760 "is 100%" the same as a GTX 670? There are many differences, one of which is that the 760 has 1152 shader cores. The 670 and 660ti both have 1344 shader cores.

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Message 31808 - Posted: 4 Aug 2013 | 9:06:18 UTC - in response to Message 31805.
Last modified: 4 Aug 2013 | 10:04:20 UTC

ETA is 100% correct. A GTX 760 *is* a GTX 670...

ETA (MrS) is usually correct, and is this time too - however you're not representing what he said accurately.

A GTX 760 Is Not like a GTX670, and MrS never said it was!

The GTX670 is more powerful (~16%) having a core config of 1344/112/32. The GTX 760 has a 1152/96/32 core config (only 1152 shaders). Basically the 760 has one SM less, and it's not clocked any higher.

A GTX660Ti, which we were comparing to the GTX760, has a core config of 1344/112/24, which is very similar to that of the GTX670 (1344/112/32).

MrS is comparing the GTX660Ti to the GTX760 because the anticipated performances are around the same. However the architecture is quite different - 1344 vs 1152 shaders and 192bit bus width vs 256bit (which is more akin to the GTX670).

The reality is that the GTX760 is almost identical to one type of GTX660OEM (1152:96:32), but not the GTX660 retail versions, which have a 960/80/24 core config (960 shaders).

wouldn't you rather get 2 more GTX660Ti's? ;)

Sure, but for the system I had in mind there are constraints. My HX750 PSU has 4 6-pin/8-pin power connectors, so I could only add one GTX660Ti (as it needs another two 6-pin power connectors). Asus have an 8-pin GTX760, so I could capacitate the system by buying two of those, and I know my GTX660Ti is good on the riser. Alternatively, I could buy 8-pin to dual 6-pin power splitters and still get two GTX660Ti's, which might be the better option, though I would still like to have a GTX760 for comparing - I have a GTX650Ti, GTX660 and GTX660Ti, so if I got a GTX760 I could make very accurate comparisons.

The problem with the GTX760 is that it's just been released and costs ~20% too much. Hopefully the cost will fall below a GTX660Ti and make it a great GPU to buy for crunching here, but people are thick and buy based on brands, titles and gimmick's rather than functionality and cost (relative performance).
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Message 31809 - Posted: 4 Aug 2013 | 10:08:58 UTC - in response to Message 31808.

where can I find a 660ti for 20% cheaper than a 760? that is my question throughout this. As I see no difference on newegg both 250. Amazon has the 660ti for about 20 dollars cheaper, with four sparkle brand left. If you could tell me that sparkle would do fine, and they would last, wouldnt be a bad gig. I shop newegg, amazon and buy.com Tell me your secrets yoda. Now the sparkles are gone, I double checked. So a 660ti on amazon is 242. These are new cards sold by amazon. I know there is a craze when people start to buy used cards, but I value the quality of my computer and wouldnt recommend putting something used into something you know works. The tsunami done took all my computers with used hard drives.

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Message 31810 - Posted: 4 Aug 2013 | 12:13:28 UTC - in response to Message 31809.

Thanks for the clarification, SK. The different numbers of shaders, clock speeds and memory controllers are what I meant by "different configurations". When saying they're all the same architecture I meant they're Keplers with CUDA compute capability 3.0, which is all that's needed to target them for software optimizations.

@Bugler: I can't speak for the US, but our price comparison tool shows GTX760 starting at 225€ and GTX660Ti at 190€ in Germany (available, from reputable dealer and manufacturer, good open air cooler). That's in € and includes VAT, so the numbers normally compare well with your US prices. And it's about at 20% difference, just as SK said (he's shopping in the UK).

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Message 31818 - Posted: 4 Aug 2013 | 17:21:08 UTC - in response to Message 31810.

The GTX660Ti has dropped in price relative to the other cards as a direct result of the GTX760 arriving, and lots of misleading reviews of highly overclocked 760's against last years reference 660Ti's (915MHz). I could now buy a GTX660Ti for ~£180. 5 weeks ago it was £220.
While some 760's have fallen from ~£210 to just under £200, many are still as expensive as their initial release price.
The GTX650TiBoost's price has now equilibriated, but the GTX660 prices haven't changed much recently.
In the UK the GTX660Ti is now on power with the GTX660 in terms of performance per purchase cost. As it's the bigger, faster card it's a better buy if you have a limited number of systems/PCIE slots. In terms of performance/overall system power it's also the winner. The GTX670 has come down a bit, but it's still too expensive compared to the GTX660Ti. This is due to it's position between a GTX660Ti/GTX760 and a GTX680/770.
Of course IT hardware prices change quickly and vary by location.
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Message 31823 - Posted: 5 Aug 2013 | 1:17:16 UTC - in response to Message 31818.

In america 760 is the same price.

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Message 31831 - Posted: 5 Aug 2013 | 19:03:28 UTC - in response to Message 31823.

I checked pricegrabber.com with a setting for the US (I don't think I have to check all the other American countries as well) and the prices were indeed pretty much the same: 242$ for GTX660Ti and 249$ for GTX760. What a pity!

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Message 31834 - Posted: 5 Aug 2013 | 22:12:43 UTC - in response to Message 31831.

The GTX660Ti is 14% cheaper in the US than in the UK, but the GTX760 is 20% cheaper in the US.
It's a pity they both weren't cheaper here.
Location, Location, Location...

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Message 31835 - Posted: 5 Aug 2013 | 23:05:18 UTC - in response to Message 31834.

The GTX660Ti is 14% cheaper in the US than in the UK, but the GTX760 is 20% cheaper in the US.
It's a pity they both weren't cheaper here.
Location, Location, Location...

Well you can order them in the US. I did a few times in the past and when the parcel is not to large and heavy, customs don't intervene...Or let someone bring it with him/her on a flight. That is allowed tax free to a rather large amount.
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