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Message boards : Graphics cards (GPUs) : NVIDIA Card for 300 W quad core computer

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Message 22884 - Posted: 4 Jan 2012 | 0:39:11 UTC

My HP desktop has an Intel Core i5-2500 quad-core 3.3GHz processor, with a single PCI Express x16 slot, that contains a NVIDIA GeForce 405(OEM) card at the present time.

[16, count them, 16 CUDA cores!] Hey it crunches SETI, Einstein@Home, and two out of three, but only two out of three, GPUGRID work units. The second WU bogged down my cursor movement, and flash video. The third WU did the same and didn't finish before the cutoff date. I quit and went back to Einstein@Home.

Upgrading the video card is limited by my unwillingness to upgrade the computers 300 W power supply. I am trying to guess how much of an upgrade my computer can (conservatively) handle. I use this computer for a lot of things. If I am going to upgrade, I need some experienced suggestions please!

POWER USAGE
I am always maxing out all 4 intel cores crunching for BOINC. I regularly stream 1 Mb/s flash video. And sometimes I play 720p h264 MP4 video. Sometimes a USB drive is connected, and in the future I might want to add a USB 3.0 add-on card in my remaining PCI Express x1 slot. I would guess that all that activity will use power.

CURRENT WISH LIST
According to Best Buy the NVIDIA GT 545 has a minimum system power requirement of 300 Watts. NVIDIA doesn't mention a minimum system power requirement for the GT 545. Are Best Buy's power specifications conservative, or could I be pushing the limits?

The GT 545 has 144 CUDA cores and double the video bandwidth vs the 16 CUDA cores of my current 405 (OEM) card. It doesn't even require an extra power plug! This card is my current favorite, if my power supply can handle it.

I guess I could drop back and just upgrade to the GT 520 which only has 48 CUDA cores, but uses about 40% less power than the GT 545. But, I like the GT 545 much better.

Jack

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Message 22889 - Posted: 4 Jan 2012 | 17:19:14 UTC - in response to Message 22884.
Last modified: 4 Jan 2012 | 17:35:32 UTC

There are two versions of the GeForce GT 545; a GDDR5 version and a DDR3 version.
While the GDDR5 version is more powerful (faster shaders, core and memory) it has a TDP of 105W. The DDR3 version has a TDP of only 70W. So in your circumstances the 70W version might be the safer choice.

It's an unfortunate fact that these CC2.1 cards can only use 2/3rds of their shaders here, so either would work as if they had 96shaders rather than 144. Only the high end, power hungry cards are CC2.0, and none of those would work on a 300W PSU.

Also worth noting is that the Kepler (600) series cards are due to start turning up sometime in the next 3months, or so, if you wanted to wait and see. These will be based on 28nm technology so they should be more power efficient &/or perform better. Exactly what turns up, when, how they perform, and if a new app is required is of course unknown. So it could be this month or in 6months time that people are using Kepler GPU's to crunch with.
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Message 22890 - Posted: 4 Jan 2012 | 20:01:06 UTC

At SETI.Germany we've got some people crunching on i5 2500's using the integrated GPU and nothing else. They manage to draw ~100 W from the wall with a little undervolting of the CPU. So your system should draw ~110 - 130 W without the GPU. Factoring in 87% power efficiency of the PSU (a modern 80+ Bronze or Silver) would mean the PSU has to supply 96 - 113 W in your case. There's plenty of room for a 70 W GPU. Personally I wouldn't worry about putting a 110 W GPU in there, as that would put the PSU at just 2/3 load. 150+ W GPU is out of the question, though.

I'd definitely go with the GT545, as the difference to the GT520 is too large. And I doubt the actual difference in power draw between the GDDR5 and the DDR3 versions is as large as the TDP makes it seem. NVidia probably plays it safe with the high rating for the GDDR5 version.

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Message 22892 - Posted: 4 Jan 2012 | 20:56:30 UTC - in response to Message 22890.

Cards I tested while running GPUGrid tasks use well under the full TDP. Around 70% is about the norm, but this changes with app and WU.
My main concern is an OEM PSU (tend to be poor) and the fact that a PCIE 2 motherboard only supplies 75W per PCIE slot. If you use a 105W card you will need a 6pin power cable from the PSU to the GPU (or a dual molex to 6pin adapter).
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Message 22898 - Posted: 5 Jan 2012 | 21:32:57 UTC - in response to Message 22892.

It's an HP machine. I'd expect the PSU to be cheap, but not to be completely rubbish.

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Message 22909 - Posted: 6 Jan 2012 | 16:09:40 UTC

I thing the i5 2500 @ stock will not keep more than 100W.
Is a 6 Pin PCIe connector at the psu?
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Message 22911 - Posted: 7 Jan 2012 | 3:40:50 UTC
Last modified: 7 Jan 2012 | 3:46:40 UTC

can you pop the case open and get the specs of the PSU?

model number would be great

we really need to know how the PSU is configured (rails/amps per rail etc)
to be able to advise you.

TO be honest though, if you can, drop $120-150 and get yourself a good
Corsair 600-750w unit.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020&cm_sp=Cat_Power-Supplies-_-YTVideo-_-YT17-139-020

You'll be doing your system a lot of good. Cleaner power, more efficient, cooler and gives you more room to expand or overclock later on.

if you stay with what you have, get a 460 v2 1gb. excellent bang for buck card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130749

I'd go with the eVga model for it's higher clocks, great warranty and service that is top rate.

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Message 22912 - Posted: 7 Jan 2012 | 11:23:35 UTC

GTX460 is good value, but borderline with the OPs current PSU. Interesting question: could you swap the PSU for a beefier model? We've got some Dells at work, which use custom designs.

If another PSU is an option, I wouldn't go for the 120 - 150$ Corsair at 600 - 700 W. That's far too much power for a stock i5 and a single GPU. 400 W would do, 500 W would be plenty.

Personally I'm running an i7 @ 4 GHz and an overclocked HD6950 with unlocked shaders.. with an Enermax Modu 87+ 500 W. It's 80+ Gold (good for a 24/7 cruncher which draws a bit shy of 300 W from the wall) and all you notice from it is a slight breeze of cold air out of its back. And even this would be overkill for the OPs system.
I'd suggest the FSP Aurum 400 W.

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Message 22916 - Posted: 8 Jan 2012 | 14:49:11 UTC - in response to Message 22911.
Last modified: 8 Jan 2012 | 14:54:31 UTC

OP stated a preference to not upgrade the PSU. Also, OEM systems tend to use non-standard connectors (power to board, on/off switch, reset...). So unless there is a change of mind and the OP can confirm standard connectors to the board, it's a non-starter.

If he pushes the PSU by using a GTX460 (TDP 150/160) it's almost inevitable that the PSU would deteriorate faster, and he would be facing problems. A GTX560 would probably use slightly less power than the 400series counterpart, but I think it would still be too power hungry. A GTX 550 Ti has a TDP of 116W. Can't see it using more than 85W, and might draw under 80W. Riskier than the 545 but perhaps worth considering? Would still need to make sure the PSU has two free Molex connectors, be prepared to fork out the extra, and take the risk.
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Message 22921 - Posted: 8 Jan 2012 | 23:05:36 UTC - in response to Message 22916.

I forgot the exact power use of a GTX480, my QX9650+GTX480 uses 373 Watt, only a CPU and GPU plus fans included and 2 HDDs, no DVD, no case and no USB devices.
CPU run @ 3.45GHz. Doing 1 GPUgrid WU + 1 SETI WU + 3 Einstein WU.
This host.
Restart GPUgrid on a Q6600+GTX470, this week.


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Message 23129 - Posted: 25 Jan 2012 | 13:34:40 UTC - in response to Message 22921.

For NVidia PSU requirements look at NVidia site:
http://www.nvidia.com/page/support.html

For exemple, my experience:

GTX460OC (600W min) -> 650W Fortron Green
GTX590 (700W min) -> 850W CoolerMaster

The wattage is important but much more is what can handle the 12V rail(s) of the PSU.!
Check carefully what can handle the 12V rail(s)

Don't forget to check the connectors compatibility with your HP mobo.



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Message 23131 - Posted: 25 Jan 2012 | 21:47:50 UTC - in response to Message 23129.

Nah, that list is totally ridiculous. It's erroring on the safe side, assuming a beefy system around the CPU and, most importantly, assuming a crap PSU.

GTX460OC: quality 400 W is fine, 500 W plenty (unless you've got 2 OC'ed CPUs). GTX590 is a different beast, though, and quality 500 W will be borderline. 600 W should be OK.

Modern PSUs (and you really shouldn't use anything else for a cruncher, otherwise the higher electricity cost due to the low efficiency will quickly exceed the cost of a new PSU) provide practically all their jiuce on 12 V (~90% or so).

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Message 23132 - Posted: 25 Jan 2012 | 22:41:23 UTC - in response to Message 23131.

For a PNY GTX 460 OC 1024MB : http://www3.pny.com/GTX-460-OVERCLOCKED-1024MB-PCIe-P2899C434.aspx

"Minimum 450W or greater system power supply (with a minimum 12V current rating of 38A), with a Core I7 3,2Ghz"

How many 450-500W PSU can give 38A on one 12V rail ?
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Message 23145 - Posted: 26 Jan 2012 | 19:27:49 UTC - in response to Message 23132.


How many 450-500W PSU can give 38A on one 12V rail ?


I found a couple on Newegg in that output range for $120-$200, but that was the upper end of their single 12V rail. So realistically, none.

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Message 23146 - Posted: 26 Jan 2012 | 21:03:27 UTC

It does not say "on a single rail". This is probably factoring in 130 W from the CPU, completely at 12 V, as well as 12 V over the PCIe slot and the 2 GPU connectors. That's 4 different sources of high currents, so a PSU with 4 rails and a maximum of 38 A combined from all of them could do it, provided it's balancing the load well.

The GTX460 has a TDP of 160 W and the actual card draws about 115 W in games. That's just 13.3 A and 9.6 A at 12 V!

Let's error on the safe side and assume 150 W for GPU-Grid, plus a CPU drawing 130 W, together with a 90% efficient mainboard yields 150 + 130/0.9 = 295 W, or 24.5 A at 12 V. That means with a 38 A PSU we'd be at 65% load - easily within the comfort zone of a modern and efficient device.

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Message 23482 - Posted: 16 Feb 2012 | 4:38:04 UTC
Last modified: 16 Feb 2012 | 4:41:45 UTC

Well It took me long enough to recheck this topic! 20 days!! I almost completely forgot that I had started it. I have a lot of catching up to do. Thanks to everyone that replied.

I just noticed that I had subscribed to the topic, but had not set up email notification!

Jack

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